I guess she is not a Mandisa fan.LOL

Older people always speak their mind don’t they? LOl! You do have to be careful about what you say to the media if you’re on the road to achieve fame. It could come back to hunt. Although, i don’t agree that it should have been held against her.

I agree somewhat of what she said. I dont see Leela James or even Christing trying to have soul. You either have it or you dont. They have different voices but can bring it on a song regarless. “Music” and “Walk Away” scream soul. Than you have the wanna-be’s like Justin Timberlake. That boy brings nothing to the table.

See people it is okay to like Beyonce, Keyshia , Leela and Christina.
Darn it she should have mentioned Letoya too.LOL.

Yeah Mandisa wazs wrong for the gay comments a lot of them supproted her.

It is nice she went to see Lil’Kim.

Move over Bill Cosby, here comes another old fool who thinks she knows everything!

Leela James and Christina Aguilera!!! WTF! hehe!

She was saying they are trying to bring it back. She are big fans of Both.

But Christina is more of a pop star and I would say Leela is trying moreso than Xtina.

And The DIVA has spoken:-)

#5 Christina , Leela and Mary J are Patti’s girl she loves them. So it is not a shock she would mention them in an interview.

But I agree I don’t think Christina is bringing back Black soul and I don’t think Leela is the only one who is doing it A licia Keys is trying to bring it back too.

Patti speaks her mind and glad to see the influebce in lil Kims life

Mandisa was dumb ass hell to say that. Come on, her name is MANDISA…it’s the gay community that would have supported her most. They don’t care how big you are, as long as you are talented. But you know, she is entitled to her opinion, and I think she is ultra talented, and will most likely do well singing gospel.

I can’t believe she said Christian is R&B????? Please tell me what the hell that girl has done that would be consider R&B????? Not one single song she’s done is R&B, what the hell. I respect Patti but she done lost her fuckin mind saying some shit like that.

I love Patti the AI comments were soo true.

I love how she says ‘Leela James and Christina Aguilera … are artists who are truly singing’ but then only refers to Bey as ‘very talented and beautiful, and she can do so many things.’
I’m interpreting that as if to say, “singing is not her thing but she’s got star power.”

I’ve been a Patti fan for a while and watch her show. I know when she’s being nice without being offensive. She put it that way because she’s cool with Jay, but she’s really no fan of Bey.

ummm Stripped and her New album is more R&B and she would have been put in R&B category if she was a Black girl.

Anyway Patti was dead on with the AI comments and I am glad she went to see KIm.

Mandisa should tell Patti Gaylord to kiss hur big black azz! Mandisa got all she had coming from AI! She wasn’t their choice…just like Ruben wasn’t! They really wanted Glay Akins to win not big Rub! So, who are they pushing the hardest…Glay?

Since when did gays become the ones who make you and stay with you? Patti has gays to think for the lost of Luther and Gregory!

Shut-up gettchi-yaya!

They asked her about black soul, not r&b. Last time I checked X-tina wasn’t black. But she can blow!

#11 Trust me Xtina would be in the R&B category if she was Black and Patti Knows that so NUFF SAID.

I don’t think Mandisa knew better that was the only thin gworng with that.

Yeah they said Black soul ,but I guess I can see where she is coming from Xtina is trying to bring it back in a way she is honoring them on her new album, Aretha,Etta Otis Redding, Billie Holliday and Ella Fitzgerald.

Anyway I don’t think Mandisa should have said that either.

Laughing at the Lil Kim comment.

# 17
I should trust you because??????? NO!!
As I said I don’t think she’s R&B Black soul or anything else (to clear that up for those that wanna grasp straws).

speak truth miss patty.

She went to see kim? For what?

What the fuck is wrong with critizizing gay folks like Mandiza did??? Mandiza was a clearly religious person and it does say in the bible its a holy sin to be gay and the punishment is hell for all time. Why is it becoming normal to be gay????

I mean its still not right, theres a difference beteen racism and critism of something that isnt normal. Its like gays are becoming the majority now??? I dont understand this shit. God made man and woman, for a reason, so its normal for someone whos straight and religous to say being that shit aint right. I dont agree with patti labbelle.

I am not going to bicker with you because it is pointless if you don’t like Christina that is your business,but apparently Patti does and always have.

So is it safe to say that BEYONCE is the greatest of her generation.

I mean damnit Patti Labelle hath given her the seal of approval.

I mean sure Beyonce’s accolades are many. And stand up for themself.

But when Patti speaks, Its usually the truth..

WOOT WOOT PATTIE IS A BEYONCE FAN!!!!!!!!!!

I will try this one again

A COMMENT SECTION IS WHERE ONE MAKES A COMMENT AND MOVE ON IF THEY DO NOT LIKE SOMEONE ELSE”S COMMENT THEY IGNORE AND MAKE THEIR COMMENT AND MOVE ON.
THEY DON”S REPLY TO OTHERS IN A COMMENT SECTION.

THAT IS CALLED A DISCUSSION THREAD.

I love Patti..lol.

Have any of you heard Leelah James sing live? The girl can BLOW. XTina can also blow live as well. So could it be that Patti Patti was referring to the days of bringing it acapella (if asked) and not just relying on studio sounds/remixes when she referred to these two as soul singers?

Real singers sing from the gut. A. Baker (my personal favotire), G Knight, A. Frankin, and so on. When they sing, you feel it; it resonates. These artists nowadays have to combine the (so called) singing with a lot of poppin’ and lockin, booty shakin, and tata grabbing so you rarely hear any vocal ability. Now XTina be poppin’ and lockin’ too but that’s because she’s a closet freak. But when that child sings “Beautiful” live, LAWD HAVE MERCY. She rips it!!

So it could just be that Ms Patti was commenting on the artists she feels don’t need the extra gimmicks to showcase their voices because they actually have a voice to showcase.

# 23
I actually like Christian in all honesty I just don’t think she can “feel” Black soul, R&B or anything remotely similar to what Blacks do. I don’t care how many Blacks you’ve been around unless it’s in you you don’t have it and Chris doesn’t have it in my opinion. So no, no bickering just starting my opinion.

# 24
How the hell did you get all of that out of what Patti said is beyond me. Maybe you need to read what she said one no ‘gin.
I think Beyonce’s very talented and beautiful, and she can do so many things. She’ll be around for a while.
No where does it say anything about her being the “greatest”, stop being a fucking stan. You hate on everyone that isn’t her and love everything she does. Grow up she doesn’t even know you exist.

Love Patti…now diva could carry on an interview….not afraid of what the mofos out there think…that’s when u know you’re the shit…

What exactly did Mandiesel she say???

I recall her saying something like, “My God will accept anyone regardless of their lifestyle or addiction…!” This after she sing Mary Mary’s song, Sparkle! What’s the big deal? Was that so tragic?

They were just looking for a reason to cut her big azz!

Angel.La, Xtina can blow, but at the Grammy’s, Herbie Hancock was looking at her real funny when she murdered that Donny Hathaway tone “A Song For You”.

Overrated!

Patti stay talking out her ass. Leela James and Christina Aguilera came to her mind before Heather Headley or Vivian Green? Heather damn near brings tears to my eyes everytime she sings.

…and since when is Christina black?

Preach Mark

You are ABSOULUTLY RIGHT Sir.

Damm Gays are getting to comfortable….

What Patty was TRYING to say is that it’s not SMART to criticize Gays, because Gays have LONG money…
Gays are the ones that will go to every concert & they buy every cd..
Gays will support you when no one else will (When I went to See Patti Labelle in Atlantic City, the ones screaming the loudest was the fags…….Patti love the Gays, and the Gays LOVE Patti

I suspect that the majority of Beyonnce fans are gay, because of the intensity of their admiration…Beyonce fans will track you down and kill you disagree that Beyonnce is the second coming,

Gays get on my last nerve to…But, if you are in the Business of selling Music, you MUST get use to them (unfortunately, because it IS a abomination in the eyes of God).

Patti is on a Cosby kick….music style.

Oh I get it now. She only said Christina’s name because she did the “Lady Marmalade” shit over. Fuck outta’ here…

Please don’t turn this into a gay/straight debate..
When you all stop sinning then you have the right to cast stones till then worry about the shit in your own closet and stop trying to tell other people how to live their lives.

#29 Not really she did oversing it , but Herbie had an interview and THEY arranged for her to sing the song like that.

Vivian Green and Heather Hedley are R&B Soul music is different

#33 Patti has liked Christina since her Genie in a Bottle Days I remeber in an interview when they asked her about Britney and Christina and she said Christina can sang.

People have different opinions ya’ll can’t get mad at Xtina, Beyonce Keyshia or Leela for Patti mentioning them.

GET OVER IT.

Yeah Patti has liked Christina before Lady Marmalade.

Please don’t turn this into a gay/straight debate..
When you all stop sinning then you have the right to cast stones till then worry about the shit in your own closet and stop trying to tell other people how to live their lives.

THANK YOU.

I suspect that the majority of Beyonnce fans are gay, because of the intensity of their admiration…Beyonce fans will track you down and kill you disagree that Beyonnce is the second coming,

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
LMAO,

WTH is Patti talking about? Mandisa came out and said that it was a lie she did not say that she hated gays. She said that she hated no one and that she didnt support their lifestyle which is a God given right. Do you have to support a crack head and their lifestyle just because they are a human beings? You can love someone and not agree with their choices.Patti lost my respect because she is commenting on rumors and not the truth. Everyone does not have to agree with gay lifestyles I dont care what this mixed up world tries to say. That girl doesnt hate anyone. Message to Patii and everybody else who agree to what she has said about Mandisa: Patti be informed about the subject matter before you go flapping your big lips. Remeber people that OBSERVATION AND OPINION DOES NOT EQUATE TRUTH.

I love patti

to #24 she is no fan of Beyonce she won’t say anything bad about her but you see she didn’t go into detail about B…Patti doesn’t put anyone down but like she said Christina Aguilera and Leela James are trying to keep R&B alive but it’s official R&B is dead! Keyshia Cole is good! But B is a pop singer!

Caff..You always right sir.

Heather Headley is SO fine. and this lady can BLOW.

My Two favorite songs are:

Heather Headley - He Is

Angie Stone - Black Brother

Two Classics……

#31 “preacha bill”

Okay, so you’re saying that gay-misery loves company! Take me in and I’ll be yo friend! Just because they have a movement don’t mean its okay. Hell, the crackheads have a movement too, but I don’t see any candidates accepting their donations!

to #30 Christina A. is a bad bitch! That girl can do things with her voice Beyonce, and even Keyshia can’t do! Well maybe Keyshia could hang with her live but Beyonce wouldn’t know where to begin she has no soul in her voice! And I’m sure Patti was just saying a few names just to make a point that R&B is not the same there are a few trying. Heather is cool and so is Vivian but neither one get enough credit, it’s sad.

Preach Bill Preach
@caff… You’re right about Patti and Heather is the BOMB, That girl CAN SING and I LIKE Vivian’s voice too
Tell us how you REALLY FEEL asbury
And I also agree w/ commnets #16 thru #18
Peace to EVERYONE on the CL and have a safe weekend !!!

Well seeing as though we have People like Cassie, ciara ashanti, rihanna, the list goes on and on.

I’d say Christina and Beyonce are the real deal in POP music.

Leela is soul, Heather , Vivian are both R&b there is a difference.

Do you think that Patti is going to name everyone she thinks that are bringing back Black soul ummm no she was only providing few examples. People take things waaay too seriously.

First ya’ll complain about peopole like Cassie and Rihanna.

But then you guys criticize Patti when she names people who have voices, cuz she did not name every damn body.

GET OVER YOURSELF>

“I think Beyonce’s very talented and beautiful, and she can do so many things. She’ll be around for a while.”…..I think this is funny,,,,she said everythig but SING. lol…..

Anyway, anyone in the game as long as Ms Patti can say what she wants 2 whomever she wants.
Considering that she and Luther were such good friends, I am not shocked she would say these things
about Mandisa.

Hopfully, Madisa and other young artist will learn that u have freedom of speech but u should watch what u say.

kind.

Caff..I heard through the grapevine that you have your own website.

could you hit us up with the URL

Thanks

Patti’s always spoke her mind. She’s the truth. Christina may not be black, but she sings better than Keyshia Cole, LOL. She might as well be black–singing like it’s nobody’s business. Mandisa will still sing, but keep your gospel to yourself. She should’ve stayed on “Do unto others as you’d have them do unto you” tip, because she cried when Simon called her on being FAT. What’s good for the goose… I like Patti.

Of course she is going to say that about Mandisa

Luther(R.I.P) was a good friend of hers.

PAtti has been singing longer than any of us (since we are most likely not singers) she can praise any damn body she wants too.

alot of artist today dont’have SOUL, unfortunately some do, Mary J. Blige, Fantasia, Leela James, Jill Scott, Alicia Keys, Christina has the voice she’s more contemporary and POP. A&R need to start going to church and recruiting talent, that american idol pop bullshit is nothing. Even though Kelis can’t really sing, its something about her that speaks soul.

Bill that’s correct. The gay community are avid shoppers. I myself, along with Skillful Discharge (provider of streetwear, decks and accessories) frown upon homophobic individuals. The gay community should be embraced, loved and taken seriously like any other person on this planet. -=)

Visit SkillfulDischarge.com, where shipping is always FREE.

#’s 34 & 38:
Please don’t turn this into a gay/straight debate..
When you all stop sinning then you have the right to cast stones till then worry about the shit in your own closet and stop trying to tell other people how to live their lives.

THANK YOU.

Let me thank both of you. Damn, don’t people know that the REALITY of the situation is if you took away all the gays in the entertainment biz who are:

singers
dancers
choreographers
writers
producers
actors
make-up artists

what would you have left? Nobody is endorsing the gay lifestyle. Believe what you want to believe. But face the facts: There are more gay people in the biz thatn you think there are. Maybe even your idols - rap stars, etc. After all, THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY IS ALL ABOUT ILLUSION, don’t get it twisted!

As for Mandisa, yeah, she spoke her mind, but Patti’s right, there is a large gay influence as far as female singers go. Shit, Donna Summer had to pay pennance for 10 years for what she said about gays.

Most of all, like Asbury said, do you think your azz is sin free? If that’s the case, you would be “saved” and not hitting clubs, or listening to secular music.

Not tryna start no shit - jus’ my opinion. peace.

Asbury….
Christina Aguilera can blow any of these non-singing R&B bitches away any day…..
Did you not hear her sing Whitney’s own song on the first BET Awards?
Did you not hear her live performance of an Etta James Blues classic “At Last.”
Did you NOt hear her sing Donny Hathaway’s “A Song For You” on the Herbie Hancock compilation.
Now I am the LAST person to assign street cred or soul to white folks, but Christina has it. The only reason she is considered a pop singer is because she is WHITE and she sings songs across genres…which good singers can do.
Leela James may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but she’s soulful, no doubt about that.
And while you may disagree with Patti, why she had to lose her fuckign mind for expressing her opinion. Hmmm, I don’t know…a singer of 25 years longevity’s opinion or yours? I’ll take Patti’s word for it…

The best performance she gave of Etta James classic was At Last on the Stripped tour.

People always got to complain about something

esp with people like Cassie and Rihanna.

Keyshia , Beyonce, Chritstina and Leela James would blow a lot of people out of the damn water.

and yes the gay community is core of the entertainment industry. If you take away that, music will really suffer.

Thanks Caff

SkillfulDischarge.com LOVES Gay money…Shop till you drop Children !!

lol…You are TOO funny. Get that money !

Caff, WILL YOU MARRY ME?

Don’t front on Xtina and say Patti only praised her cuz she did Lady Marmalade.

Patti praised her ass many other times before that.

Anyway I agree don’t jump down Patti’s throat cuz she did not name every singer in the damn book get a life.

The Gay issue Patti said that cuz she was close friends with Luther (R.I.P).

The Bible also used to say that negroes were inferiors according to White people …you should always question.

And..For the Record, Patti Labelle has been singing longer than I have been alive, so she get’s a pass…

Patti can say whatever she wants to say.

She earned & DESERVES that respect !!!!

*Christina IS a BAD white girl who CAN BLOW !!!!

WHoeever said that Heather, and Vivian sings soul music needs to get a reality check R&B is NOT soul music.

Leela James sings soul music.

Christina is TRYING to bring it back with her latest album but before she mostly sang R&B and POp.But she can sang better than aLOT of people in the industry nowadays.

If Patti did not like Beyonce then sh would not have done a tribute to DC on the WMA’s last year.

# 57
Yeah and your point is????????
She did a shitty job on Donnie’s song.
As for you taking not my opinion I never said you had to so you not agreeing makes no fucking difference to me, it’s still MY opinion. Now you have great weekend sweetie.

You must not have had your enema today asbury. Wassup with that stank azz attitude?

The topic was soul, not r&b. And why do some blacks feel that anyone who is ‘real and can be accepted by blacks’ needs “street cred” first? That’s foolish and unnecessary. Ain’t that much being real in the world, especially when the majority of blacks don’t keep it real themselves. Christina does have a voice and you don’t have to be black in order to have “soul.” I just never saw music as black and white, that’s crazy. And if you do, you’re missing out on a lot.

And obviously if Keisha nor Beyonce’ were mentioned with her first response then it wasn’t intended. It seems as though their names were just thrown in just to see what someone like Patti would have to say about them being that they are always criticized anyway. Shame on the interviewer.

Bill…Lol, their money is green just like the rest of ours. -=)

Niema, if your credit is good and you can cook, yes I’ll marry you.

I LOVE Ms. Patti! She’s SUCH an ole’ school broad. I’m so glad she gave Christina and Leela props. Christina has been fighting tooth and nail since she got in the game to get out of that bubblegum bullshit. I’m not really into jazz, so i’m not all that enthused about the new lp…but her voice is still powerful nonetheless. And Leela’s holding it down the way Erykah did circa her live album. DEAD ON Ms. Patti. I’m curious to know who the incomprable Betty Wright is digging now-a-days.

You know what I find funny?

This thread is littered with people who insist on imposing their “Christian” beliefs on other people — inparticular gay and lesbian people. The concept of two people of the same gender being in love is just too abstract of a concept for them to understand or accept. YET they are perfectly fine believing that when they die they are whisked off to some magical place in the clouds. Where some mystical overlord will watch over them as they fly (with wings) from place to place busily struming a harp while communing with the also dead. Now who’s crazy here?

Not every person crawling this planet is a Christian. AND those that are — the true Christians — are busy on the streets helping the poor and down trodden. They aren’t wasting their time condemning others to hell on message boards. Frankly it’s a very vain and self-righteous thing to do. But of course, in the age of Bush branded Christianity…people sift and pick and choose the parts of the Bible that works to their benefit and completely ignore the parts that would impede their own selfish lives.

^^^^^^^^^^^
#67

So true. A well rounded music collection should have several elements of “soul”. Some rock has soul, as well as classical, electronica and lounge. Open up those heads y’all!

To the subliminals, I never said Christina couldn’t sing. I was probably one of the only black males loving Christina when she first dropped “Genie in a bottle”.

Most of yall just got hip to her during the whole Lady Marmalade fiasco.

-_- zZ

#70 MakingFaces (Droppin’ that science)

Shut. Me. The. Fuck. Up.

That was DEFINITIVE.

ummm I liked her since WAGW. So maybe most but not me.

Mark…I completely agree. Mandisa has the right to state her opinion. She is a Christian and she has her believes. America may not have liked it so they voted her out, but in the end she was true to herself. Anyway, Patti is in another world (Hollywierd). She knows that gays are her biggest fans. She’s not going to bite the hand that feeds her.

asbury…I completely agree. Christina can sing, but has no soul. She does her best at imitating though. Regarding Patti being a fan of Beyonce,I agree with you again. She(Patti)was being quite diplomatic in her answer which is a bit odd because she normally shoots from the hip. I don’t think she thinks much of B. Not much of her talent anyway.

Thes are opinions not Facts people

SOme believe that Christina has soul some don’t but the Bitch can sang regardless of what you believe.( I think everyone has a soul)

Obvioulsy Patti believes she has soul so I think she is in a better position to say who has it and who does not than any of us.

@asbury

Tell it! Just stay cool and tell it like you doing, because they know you right on point!
——————————————
#61 Niema, marrying caff will depend on which State you live in, because most places don’t condone freaky weddings!

#53 Erica

Patti knows first hand what happened to Luther and she understands where Mandiesel was coming from. Patti’s probably a lesbo herself. And, just because you sing a long time don’t mean you got any sense. James Brown is still crazy as hell, but he and Bob Marley are pioneers in the industry! Both with their junior high school educations!

Obvioulsy everyone has different opinions about artists and I do not see the point of trying to prove to someone else that someone has soul or not because music is subjective not Objective and some people can FEEL some artists and some can’t.

Furthermore this is the internet you are NOT going to change someone’s minds over it.

Anyway I like Christina and I heard samples of her new album and it is nice. I also like Keyshia Cole and Beyonce and Heather too. I have all of their albums and will be buying future ones.

I LOVE miss Patti Labelle.

Meatloaf you got too much time on your hands.

I Love Patti and I agree with everything she said.

Post # 67

Valid Point about “street cred”

With the way it is these days, if you stay at home, and watch BET & MTV 24/7, a Caucasian person could EASILY learn how to emulate/imitate a Black person singing style & emotion. (Have you ever seen that Movie “Straight out of Malibu”. My point exactly)

Caucasians have been imitating us for YEARS.
&N Sync, New Kids on the Block, etc, etc…

Some do it better than others.

Christina Angular REALLY is the BEST of the bunch.

She CAN sing. Whether she grew up in a black neighborhood, or hung out with Black people, or her daddy is black, I don’t know…I don’t know that much about her…I DO know that she can sing…

This is for all of you who still are blinded by foolishness. I said it once and I will say it again.
self said:
——————————————————————————–

WTH is Patti talking about? Mandisa came out and said that it was a lie she did not say that she hated gays. She said that she hated no one and that she didnt support their lifestyle which is a God given right. Do you have to support a crack head and their lifestyle just because they are a human beings? You can love someone and not agree with their choices.Patti lost my respect because she is commenting on rumors and not the truth. Everyone does not have to agree with gay lifestyles I dont care what this mixed up world tries to say. That girl doesnt hate anyone. Message to Patii and everybody else who agree to what she has said about Mandisa: Patti be informed about the subject matter before you go flapping your big lips. Remeber people that OBSERVATION AND OPINION DOES NOT EQUATE TRUTH

I score well. What day? I’m ready. No baggage with me. Just me by myself.

Just like a lot of Black women imitating White people

Christina’s Father is Ecuadorian ( so she is half hispanic.)She does not get along with him b/c he beated her her mom and her sister.

She grew up listening to Billie Holliday Etta James and a bunch of other Black arist she just likes that kind of music. She sung Ella Fitzgerald on Star search.

Anyway I agree she does not sing soul music more like Pop and R&Pop but she can sing which is something I can’t say for a lot of artists nowadays.

Furthermore a lot of other people like Beyonce is also POP stars.

And to WHOEVER is cool with one man accepting another man’s penis in his behind…

Well… let me put it to you like this:
Suppose this same man came and then slept with YOU.

Not a pleasant thought, huh….

Every once and awhile they show this AIDS special on BET on Sunday Mornings…
Watch it!
Listen to how many women, who were infected by men, whom they THOUGHT was straight.
Listen to how many Lesbian Women are in abusive relationships.
Listen to the statistics on Gays Suicide, and Gay Homicide.

Gays are unhappy people.

I love them with the Love of Jesus, but I condemn & rebuke their sexual practice.

Jesus Saves !!!
Jesus Christ IS Lord !!!

Look @ Patti showing her luv 4 the gay community w/her rainbow colored frames…I heard a minute ago that Patti was dating Keith Sweat?? If that was true, are they still together?

Exactly Caff. The only reason she fuck wit christina so hard is cuz of that damn itchy itchy coochie song. That bull shit.

That is because Homophobia is rampant among the Black community. So it is hard for them to come out.

Bill why are you forcing your beliefs on others?

Exactly Caff. The only reason she fuck wit christina so hard is cuz of that damn itchy itchy coochie song. That bull shit.

Stop making shiit up she has praised Xtina before Lady Marmalade so get you r facts straight.

She said in 1999 that lil girl can sang.

LOL @ #86 (itchy coochie)!!! That’s the reason she visited Kim in prison as well. I guess if you
re-make a Patti classic, she has your back for life!! She luvs those ‘Marmalade’ hoes…I heard she paid for Pink to get another tattoo!!! J/K

#79 Sherry

If you would have done your reading, writing, arithmetic assignments and extra credit in school like I did, you too would have time on your hands.

Don’t be jealous of me because I got it like that. Now, which are you, a lesbo or tranquil or tone deaf or just boushy? I’m trying to figure out where you came from.

It states in the Bible that it is wrong to be gay. I don’t agree with the gay lifestyle, but that is my opinion. I don’t have the right to judge or discriminate against others because of my beliefs. The way I see it, everyone answers to their God when they die and has to account for things. We are all far from perfect, there is never a need to hate. We tend to use the Bible when it is most convenient for us: cursing, drinking, premarital sex, etc.- often forgot about.

umm Patti has liked Christina since she came out so ummm you have no point there. Anyway like someone else said you can’t force your opiniions on others OVER the INTERNET so stop wasting your time. Comment on the topic and move the fuck on.

I like Patti and I can’t wait for anyone who READ the rest of the Article for her new Gospel album.

She also talked about BUSH.

IMO and all of this is my opinion,the problem with today’s world is some of us think we know better than GOd.yes i sin but i dont parade it in people’s face and tell them to accept what i do.I am humble, I ask GOD to forgive me and i work on it,knowing that i may still do whatever until i can overcome my weakness and selfishness.GOD and people close to me that i tell know ,i’m not proud of it,i accept my weakness.some people have no shame in their game. most people think that whatever they do is right ,why then is there a Bible.we applaud a woman getting pregnant(HALLE), a woman that cant apparently get her own personal and or spiritiual life together,why gain the world to lose your soul.why bring someone else in the world when you cant control your self.realize this, we sin because we want to,we are selfish.and the world is a product of this.we are to be of God and not this world ,this world is run by the devil and just because patti can sing and says the gays run the music world are we to bow to them,to me that is a sellout statement to the highest power.that is dirty money as is a lot of ways cash is earned.its up to an individual to do whatever but know that we will be called to account for all of our actions.one day we will have to choose whose side we are on, GODS or the ways of the world.and that day could be here now.we all need to read THE BOOK more,than we read this nonsense,myself included.

#70

I certainly do not agree w/ everything you said, but nicely, nicely put.

A lot of people are not religious the Bible has been transformed into many different languages BEFORE it was written in English. You think I am going to belive EVERYTHING the BIBLE says especially what it says about Women. Umm no I have a mind of my own I am not going to be led by a book that a WHite man created to make us obey.

Patti, Patti, Patti, when did Christina Aguilera become Black music? I hear black people say she can sing, but don’t own one damn cd. Come on now. Syleena Johnson got real soul. I will have to borrow Patti’s glasses because I can’t see it. Singing runs does not make you and honorary Black person or soul singer. She liked Latoya London ( who can sing) better than Fantasia, so I know something’s off. Out of respect for Ms. Labelle, I will not say another word. LOL.

Shouldn’t you just make your comment and move on.LOL?

Larry ita : This world has gotten to the point where it wants to be all inclusive in all kinds of crazy things. We dont realize that we all must stand accountable for what we have done. That statement does not require your belief for it to happen. Keep doing what you doing and when that times comes we will see what was right or who was right. So dont listen to me or anybody else follow your own destiny. Hate on that if you like. I dont care.

umm there is not only one Aisha in the world.

Patti, Patti, Patti, when did Christina Aguilera become Black music? I hear black people say she can sing, but don’t own one damn cd. Come on now. Syleena Johnson got real soul. I will have to borrow Patti’s glasses because I can’t see it. Singing runs does not make you and honorary Black person or soul singer. She liked Latoya London ( who can sing) better than Fantasia, so I know something’s off. Out of respect for Ms. Labelle, I will not say another word. LOL.

Umm a lot of Black people do have her cds so WTF are you talking about? You just assume cuz we are Black that we don’t have her cd’s, but I own them and I know a lot of other people (Black who do) SO you just made an ASS out of yourself becasue you assumed.

LOL I just had to say it.

Yeah, Christina can sing, she sometimes oversings though. I love her voice, even if she is pop and not black. Leela’s voice is amazing! Whitney/ pre-crack was amazing. I bet she sounds better high than a lot of acts out there now. Beyonce has a good voice, but Leela, Anita B, Jill Scott, Vivian, Fantasia- i feel totally different hearing them sing (it comes from a deeper place.)

#95 said: You think I am going to belive EVERYTHING the BIBLE says especially what it says about Women. Umm no I have a mind of my own I am not going to be led by a book that a WHite man created to make us obey.
—————————-
**You really think the Bible was created by white men?? Just asking
**I wonder if Patti makes prune cobbler 4real. That sounds extremely disgusting.

I think that it was translated to English by a White man.

YaY Christina! That’s my girl and Patti loves her too!

Labelle is a self serving has-been! She could have mentioned Fantasia, Usher, Legend, Mary J. or Ms. Keys, but no…she came from way out in left field with Leela James and Christina Aguilera. WTF? You can tell whose butt she’s been kissing! The gays didn’t make or break JayZ! The gays didn’t make or break Russell or all the people on asbury’s long A-list!

Patti looks like a damn fool with them green framed glasses on. She’s a big fake. She and Bill Cosby give a new meaning to senile! Sell outs!

Ok…I have to go back a couple of comments to #3…OMG! Were you referring to Chris.Ag’s “Walk Away”?! That is my FAVORITE Christina Aguilera song! For those of you that say that Chris has no soul, you need to need to buy Stripped and listen to THAT song…(11) Before you make comments like “Not one single song she’s done is R&B…” you need to make sure you know that for a FACT…and it sounds like you’re not a Christina Aguilera fan so that would mean that you PROBABLY don’t own any of her cd’s which means that you’re not qualified to make that statement…but anyways…alot of you read TOO much into things! Just because Patti may not have said “I LOVE Beyonce’! She’s the ****” that doesn’t mean she doesn’t like her…but I didn’t even know her and Kim were friends like that…

I love Patti Labelle and I respect her opinion Beyonce can sing but Keyshia cole on the other hand cannot. If you have seen a previous episode of The way it is another girl out sang her on her own song. Sweety you really do need lessons. I think that iun a singing competition that xtina will blow Beyonce away.

Now for the comments that you homophobes are making about the gay community did you know that the reason why AIDS is so rampant in the black community is because of their unacceptance of the gay community think about that. PEACE.

#104 you seriously have too much time on your hand.LOL.
We get the point you don’t like Patti , but are you going to keep saying it all day.

Usher is R&B not Soul you need to check out the dictionary.

Patti get yo ass back in that kitchen and make me some Turkey Necks and rice..

I agree with the people who said people complain about Cassie and Rihanna.

But they still complain when someone mentions people who are actually talented including Keyshia

EVERYONE I KNOW WHO CAN SING FAMOUS OR NTO SAYS THAT KEYSHIA CAN SING SO OBVIOUSLY SINCE THEY ARE SINGERS THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT>

Oh yeah..in reference to (99)…Aisha…i’m wit cha gurl because I have BOTH of Chris cd’s and I will probably be buying the next one…I LOVE when people assume and make asses out of themselves…

To everyone mad at Patti for mentioning Christina and Leela.

PATTI CAN LIKE AND NAME WHOEVER THE FUCK SHE WANTS TO>SO GET A DAMN LIFE>

Mandisa did come out and say that she didnt say anyting about hating anyone. Those were rumors. But still God dont want you to sell him out for no money. So all this she should watch what she say because that could damage her. God provides and will replace anything that you loose because you stood in his name. Sometimes her voice can get on my nerves.

Sigh….

Everyone keeps saying that.

Being gay is a sin.. And the bible says so.

Well what about the many other things the bible says is a sin.

Adultry, Blasphmy, Gambling, watching porn, drug abuse, Lying, stealing. BLAH BLAH BLAH!

The list goes on. We all sin. COMMON KNOWLEDGE.

The thing about God is. He looks at all SIN the same mother fucking way.

One sin isnt any better then the other.

So if im GAY, and you Cheat, Steal, Kill. On judgement day we shall get the Same mother fucking punishment.

Oh yeah, Pattie said Beyonce = talented and beautiful. If she isnt complitementing her singing. What exactly is she calling “talented”.

Duh Pattie loves DC3 and Beyonce. She sang a tribute to them.

***Now I shall continue @ Caff’s website, as I spend my gay money on his merchandise.***

PS: People take what they want out of the bible and spin it to how they want to. If I wanted to I could justify murdering every person in here. Lol if I wanted to.

Wow, those of you that are disrespecting Patti have NO right to commment on music one way or the other. Patti is a pioneer in the game, and if wasn’t for the singers of her day who had to go thru the back entrance of the theaters and perform to segregated crowds, there would be no Fantasia or Keyshia or anyone else. It’s okay for you to disagree w/ her…but why be disrespectful. It’s a very blad display of the youth in this country. Makes me sick.

she didn’t really say anything to outlandish in the interview.

and it’s true that u don’t piss of the gays. they make and break u haha. it’s funny gays break ^ some fast w/ their mates buh will support a fave muscian for yrs

I KNO THATS RIGHT PATTI!…note to mandisa, never bite the hand that feeds u, or in this case the hand that applys ur make up and gives u a new sassy hairstyle….silly hussy

Funny how some people jumped all over my question about Justin Timberlake having “street cred” but some of those same folks are on here talking about how Christina has no soul either because she ain’t singing about nothing black, or her pops ain’t black or she’s really a pop artist, or she’s this, she’s that, or whatever.

A minute ago music had no color and now ya’ll are on here debating the difference between what classifies her as an R&B, pop, or soul artist and whether or not she qualifies because she doesn’t cater primarily to a black audience.

If music is so colorblind, who gives a shit!! The real debate should be whether or not the girl has a decent VOICE, in your opinion.

Some people are such HYPOCRITES. I swear. That’s why I don’t even sweat Other People’s Point Of Views on this site cause they change like drawers on a dirty whore; only when it’s convenient.

#106 brownsugah305 said:

“…the reason why AIDS is so rampant in the black community is because of their unacceptance of the gay community”

———————————-

Ahh hell naw! Don’t go blaming the gay mess on the general public! There’s more permiscuiousness in black people, be they from Africa or Smith Creek! We just love to do it! That old slave breeding mentality!

We don’t accept crack either, so are we responsible for that? We don’t accept child molestation, so are we to blame for the actions of Catholic priest!

Find some other riddle or gimmic to use, because the one you wrote is senseless! Now, you think about that!!! War!

99 …..Hey Dummy, use common sense I don’t everyone of the 38.8 million black people in America it was a general statement. Don’t be stupid. O.k. you and your mama own her CD, that’s two.

i agree with # 106. beyonce and xtina can sing their asses off. Patti made some vaild points in the interview…i just think that people read in too much when it comes to interviews. i did watch keyshia cole’s show when the girl she chose sang BETTER than she did. LOL i was shocked and so was keyshia lol she was just standing there looking at her. anyways with the experience Patti has, i think she has the right to her opinion like the rest of us do when it comes to gay rights.

#118 You just mad cuz you made an ASS out of yourself >…LOL. YOu assumed that a lot of Black people don’t own her cds when there are many who do.

ASS

#116 RhythmicSoul,

You give me the creeps! WTF?? What stage are you in? Maybe you didn’t notice, but Mandiesel ain’t been missing no meals! She could go a whole winter without eating! I can’t stand you dick-lipped, vigina dryers! Cut yo hair and get yo damn hand off yo head fool! hehe!

patti is the one to bow down to.she cannot be touched.i can’t wait to see her in this lifetime movie

# 66
lmao. you’re right I haven’t had it today and I need it too.

# 84
Bill save the preaching for yourself. Obviously you don’t know the difference between GAY, BI_SEXUAL or DL. A gay man will not sleep with a woman so I don’t worry about them giving me A.I.D.S.
You people kill me with the Bible says this, the Bible says that garbage. Didn’t it also say those whom haven’t sinned cast the first stone??? You all make it seem as if you’re Jesus in the flesh. Damn if some of you Bible thumpers actually had lives you wouldn’t be so concerned with what goes on in another persons home.
Oh yeah, save whatever opinion you’re going to type for yourself because I don’t wanna hear it. If I wanted your opinion I would have given it to you.

#123 lmao two snaps up and a circle!

(117) So it’s the gays fault that some straight people are too fuckin stupid to use condoms? Or too stupid to stop doing drugs? You must be one of those dumbasses that STILL think that gay people are the only ones that have AIDS…or if you have AIDS, it’s because you’re gay…STFU! Please!

Mandisa has quoted, on many occasions, that her inspiration and role model is an avid anti-gay woman (whose name i have forgotten).

She’s even been called up on it. Mandisa better turn to gospel music. That’ll be the only fanbase she can get

#118 Are you Christina Aguilera #1 Stan? Who gives shit if you own her cd it’s a fuckin cd? Everybody this bitch own her cd!!! Bitch, I will believe when I see the receipt. What dumb ass is going to argue over if they own a CD?

#118 Are you Christina Aguilera #1 Stan? Who gives shit if you own her cd it’s a fuckin cd? Everybody this bitch own her cd!!! Bitch, I will believe when I see the receipt. What dumb ass is going to argue over if they own a CD.

Apparently you are ^^^^^

You seriously need to get examined cuz you have major issues.I doubt #118 is a fan of Christina’s.

But Patti is the shiit. I don’t give a fuck what nobody says.

WTF? Gay, Bi, DL, Fag, Queers, Freaks…all the same! Twisted booty boys! Vigina dryers! Lesbos…show stoppers! Baby killers!

Just like drug addicts…Crack, Weed, Horse, Speed, x2c…all drugs.

Now, if stones are being cast in your direction, that is not my fault, because I don’t know what you do! Only the feet of the guilty should be smashed by what I said!

# 130
If you’re referring to me I’m not gay, I’ve told you this before.
You people kill me with your self righteous asses.

#128

you need to calm down. why get your knickers in a bunch b/c patti gave Xtina a compliment? ‘nough important people in the business have complimented her (without someone directly asking them to)

#131 Like I said, “I don’t know what you do!” And, you can defend anything you think is judgemental, wrong and offensive! But, I refuse to dignify gays!

There’s more to that bible verse you quoted that just saying it to shut people down!

AISHA… the bible doesnt support abuse of any kind to women, it tells stories and gives examples of how many men made foolishly selfish decisions that permanently scared women for the rest of days,there are numerous scriptures speaking to men on how to treat a woman in a loving way and to stay away from immoral women and to never ever cheat (proverbs ch. 5-7)there are more scripts on it, yea i did it i posted a scripture now i guess im going to get my head chopped off for it, oh well, but neways

I read the whole article and thanks patti for supporting my home in the disaster, and on a lighter note that keshia cole stuff is funny

to aisha, just calm down alittle there are things in there that supports us too i use to get angry by the things i read too so i understand especially when there are soo many ppl who take it incorrectly i.e. men treatin women like shit, or women treatin themselves like shit

# 133
I don’t think they need nor care for “your” justification. The fact you think they care is an insight into that massive ego of yours, lol. Why so many of you seem to think you not liking gays is your ticket into heaven is beyond me. Most men that are so damn homophobic have something to hide… lmao

The white man takes everything else from black people, but he didn’t have a chance to take black soul music, because Patti just up and gave it to him!

This old azz trick just broke in my car, opened my glovebox and stole all my CDs! I can’t trust you no more Patti! That kind of carrying on, I don’t like it! Stay away from me Patti! She’s so out of touch!

#136

So, what’s your vested interest? You sticking around for some reason siting bible verses and quoting scripture. What’s you’re burden?

I care, because I will always believe we lose talents like Teddy, Luther and Eddie because of this mess. I would say the same thing to some fool who wants to drink and drive. Get off the road! Or, get out of the booty! Kapietch!

Ya’ll beteer show Miss Patti some damn respect, she is a legend.

Now, why are you still here?

like patti said beyonce is beautiful thats about it she sell her sex appeal those damm blond wigs too plus she cant act for shit

@139

Rick James, Michael Jackson, OJ, R and Whitney are all legends too, but I have no respect for their actions. Just some ignant losers! I’m bout to add Patti and Bill to that list if they keep it up!

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, that is why sites like these exist. If someone degrees with someone, big deal. That’s America and that is everyone’s right. Everyone can believe in their religion and practice accordingly, but we should not have to attack each other over it. Instead we can keep this light and focus on practicing our Christianity, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Confucianism, Thaoism, Hinduism, Atheism, etc., the best way we know how to. Someone’s opinion on gays is different from another person’s. It doesn’t have to be personal and we don’t have to beat each other over the heads to convert to them to our own indiv. beliefs. As for AIDS, we are all as a community responsible for it. We didn’t preach to our friends enough about it, we failed to ask enough questions, we refuse to talk to our children about it. It is not a DL, gay, bi, lesbian issue- we are all to blame thinking that we are immortal and touting the advancements of modern day medicine as a means to worry less about AIDS. And we are even bigger fools to rely on gov’t and medicine to take care this problem. Can we respect each other’s opinion on this site?

She is ignorant just because you disagreed with her opinion SIT YO ASS DOWN.

Meatloaf, sweetie, sugar, honey, precious, darling, why don’t you just call it a night. Go home get yourself a beer and watch some porn, enjoy the weekend then come back Monday refreshed and new then start all over again okay dumpling.

Just make sure not to drink or masturbate(Eddie Griffin) and drive, oh wait you know this already.

degrees, disagrees

Meatloaf has already expressed his opinions and he is not going to change anybody else’s so why is he still here.I am confused

Meatloaf is saying the same thing over and over again. Point Blank write her a letter to express your distaste.

this discussion is crazy and getting out of hand.

The Bible says a lot of things that people dont follow every damn day. So if a dude wanna get down with some other dude that’s his damn business. If u dont agree with then thats ur business but who are u to say someone is going to hell and treat them less than human. Since we wanna talk about what the bible say dont do….um sex before marriage. I think we need to go find all the ppl who aint virgins and aint married and protest outside there house. Since God said that aint right, i say we start a movement. Seriously we focus on the wrong issues.

2 much hate going on this world to worrying about who someone is LOVING.

& anybody saying Xtina dont have soul and is pop dont own a Xtina cd. Even before that when she was on MMC, u just see white girl, hear genie in a bottle and assume. She aint even wanna do that pop mess. Oh and Joss Stone too. Homegirl is soooooo soulful. love joss stone.

“black soul” and “Christina Aguilera” do not belong in the same sentence…..EVER.

#144 Kelly
She’s ignant, because she thinks that gays made her career and that Christina is the first thing out of her mouth when talking about black soul music! And, she’s ignant for wearing those damn green glasses! hehe!

asbury, you took offense for some reason. I can see a gay person defending their mess, but I don’t understand your reason. I’ve given you my reason…I see the damage that it causes. Now, what’s your angle! Or, are you just gonna keep silent?

Well a lot of artists that she looks up to are Black soul artists and there is nothing wrong with that.

Point Blank if Patti’s comments are stressing you out that much write her a letter. I will be laughing when she cusses you out.

Black soul and Christina Aguilera no what BITCHES.LOL

Umm they do belong in the same sentence since she is HONORING BLACK SOUL ARTISTS WITH HER NEW ALBUM DUMBASS>

Don’t get your panties in a bunch just becasue she did not name every singer in the book.

Personally, I think Christina is a great singer, and that’s why Miss Patti named her, I guess talent knows talent.

Black soul and Christina Aguilera now what BITCHES.LOL

Umm they do belong in the same sentence since she is HONORING BLACK SOUL ARTISTS WITH HER NEW ALBUM DUMBASS>

Don’t get your panties in a bunch just becasue she did not name every singer in the book.

I could see if she said Paris Hilton but Christina can sing so STFU. (and yes I own her albums as well as Heather Hedley

People who are mad at the gay comments a lot of Gays supported Mandisa.

Meatloaf
Lets get something straight(no pun intended) I DO NOT have to explain myself to you, my spaders partner tht didn’t understand why I ran spades or the pizza man that wanted to know why I wanted a pizza with no sauce.
I’m GROWN, I don’t answer to my mama and I sure as hell won’t for some homophobic person in a public blog.

#147 lesha,

I have seen people change their opinions on CL, so don’t sit there and think that others can’t change just because you can’t. I belive everyone can change! Life has a way of bringing about change. Just ask Lil Wayne and Trina! You’ll see two different people from now on!

Even asbury change on CL! She had too or drown! You know I’m right and please don’t make me give details, because I witnessed the whole episode from start to library! hehe!

And yes, I will be leaving soon, because I do have a life, unlike those of you who post on this site all night…excuse me, all “pathetic” night long!

P.S. I know how y’all operate, so whoevers gonna be next on the assault can just save it! hehe!

Apparently you can’t change people’s opinions over the internet either.

#156

Okay, well that settles it asbury! Your lifestyle is your own personal business. If I wake up tonight at 3:30 or 4:00am, I will log on and read your response!

Next time and I know there will be a next time…leave the bible verses out of it!

Meatloaf, I swear you are a barrel of laughs. I didn’t change nor will I ever change. Picture me changing for a bunch of people I don’t know. Mainly you…nigga please now you sound like you’re on that shit. Hasn’t your time on the PC at the public library expired yet damn?
Have a great weekend sweetie, smooches.

#158 Grace

Apparently, you’re not paying attention or comprehending! hehe! People do change! Next to Viagra, the internet is the most powerful invention of our life time!

Next?

#160 asbury

The sound you make won’t be “smooches”, but rather a gag from me thrusting the “General” way back on your throat! Stay cool and remember your anger management exercises! Oohsa! Oohsa!

Going once!

Going twice!

Gone!

You guys are talking about Christina but you haven’t heard her new album. There is a song on there “Make Me Wanna Pray” that makes you want to go to church. She definetely catches the spirit. Her new album is extremely R&B. Only one other song is pop like ANOM. That’s it.

Damn! I left this page a little while ago (I was just reading, no comment was made) because I knew what’s happening now was coming after someone made a biblical comment, but I had to come back to see what was being said.

First let me just say that music is universal, all this black, soul, R&B or whatever you wanna call it can be performed by anyone; not everyone has the ability to do so, but for those who really feel it, it just pours out. It doesn’t mean that they’re the best singer in the world either, but we as fans know when an artist is giving us their all. I believe Christina is one of those artists.

Also, I agree with those who believe that no sin is greater than the other. We all fall short of the glory!

Besides, haven’t you guys heard Janis Joplin’s music? If you haven’t check it out. She’s got so much soul that it’s crazy. Gavin Degraw is another one, and Robin Thicke. I will admit that Justin T. just copies. But guys give respect where it’s due. Listen to Christina’s Back to Basics when it’s released and be blown away.

God loves and rewards the humble, the arrogant burn in hell.

Just want to clear up he Mandisa situation. She did several interviews after AI and she was asked by a radio dj in Atlanta who happens to be gay if she was asked to PERFORM at a venue that was targeted towards Gays would she do it and she said “NO” which is her decison and its great that she is standing by her faith/beliefs but for someone new in the game-she hasn’t started out right.

support janet and sign the petition 2 get her video’s played on mtv.

http://www.petitiononline...om/JanMTV06/petition.html

please sign it because mtv has blacklisted janet for the superbowl nipple thing, but they are playing justin timberlake video and thats not fair!!

First off, Patti Labelle only gave you an inkling into the mentality of these niggers in the entertainment industry and the quickness with which they’ll sell their souls. She was a known member of Anton LaVey’s Church of Satan, which most entertainers were in at some point in time (especially blacks). As a side note, Mick Jagger said that she gave him the worst blowjob in the history of blowjobs, lol. So you better believe that she’s gonna back the faggots. I don’t understand why people get so angry when someone happens to bring up the Bible. I didn’t read any comments where people were forcing their beliefs on anyone. I just saw their devotion to the scripture. The only reason why niggas have no problem with homos is because the white man told them that homosexuality is okay, so get the fuck outta here. If that’s the case, then you should just mind your business if you have knowledge of a pedophile or a rapist because “you can’t judge anybody”. People judge other people all the time, it’s called the judicial system, lol. Lastly to those that say that the Bible says that all sin is equal, please show me where it says that. Stop making up your own shit.

It’s refreshing to see that racism is alive and well. No seriously, Christina could outsing 85% of our (black)so-called R&B artists.She’s not fucking with Kelly Price, but she’s damn good. Her tone is far superior to Keyshia Cole and Beyonce (whom I feel lip syncs, because she does far too much shaking and moving for her breathing to not be affected). Leela James is not that popular, because “she is” incredibly talented, she doesn’t fit the mold of what America wants on TV. Vocally she reminds me of Pastor Shirley Ceaser and Mavis Staples.

All sin is an affront to God’s holiness and character, and all who sin (um, that’s everyone) are guilty before Him.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

(172) So i’m guessing that you know Patti personally and she told you this?Right? GTFOH! Ya know…if you really wanna know why some people have no problem with homosexuality then you should ask a person that doesn’t have a problem with homosexuality instead of assuming because you sound like an ass who thinks they know everything when you assume…oh yeah, and the rapist and pedophile analogy is not used in the right context so you might wanna stray from using them…because judging people and knowing that someone is and/or has hurt someone and saying something about it to the appropriate people is not the same thing…you can try to justify hate all you want but the bottom line is that there is no justification and just because people judge others doesn’t mean it’s right…

Keep your primitive, fundamentalist ignorant religious beliefs to yourself. Stop trying to get people to live by your outdated religious beliefs. Most educated modern people don’t believe that stuff.

Judah, People who truly know God don’t practice hatred or degrade other people. Therefore, Judah’s use of the word “fag***t” or other anti-gay terms indicates he harbors prejudice and hatred toward gays. Calling people names is not a Christian nor righteous thing to do. I pray for your soul.

The Bible says you should kill disobedient children, disabled people can’t be priest, slavery is ok, men are the head of women, and commands people to engage in genocide of entire cities, including children. If you think that is from God, you are one ignorant and twisted person. Keep your ignorant religious beliefs out of other people’s lives. Your ignorance is pathetic.

#70 SPOKE THE DAMN TRUTH! PREACH!

BILL AND MEATLOAF, I’LL PRAY FOR Y’ALL. ALL THAT HATE CAN’T BE HEALTHY. STFU.

I have never understood the logic of someone having a problem with the gender someone loves. Your religious beliefs are just that, YOURS, not mine, not my mother’s, not my wife’s, not my sons. (By the way, we’re liberal Lutherans who support gay marriage and our gay family members). At any rate, there is no logical reason why you should have any venom about who a consenting adult falls in love with. It is mentally disordered and quite nosy for you to get so worked up and emotional about the gender someone is dating, falling in love with, making love with, building a life together. We used to call people who got upset about other people’s love lives “busybodies” or just plain “haters” because they ain’t getting no action themselves.

Stop caring about what gender someone loves and start acting like a mature and intelligent member of society who accepts people’s right to live in the manner that maximizes their happiness and is in accordance with their personal convictions about who they are.

“Sin?” I think being a homophobic bigot is a sin, as well as ignorant. Some of you religious kooks act like your notions of sin are the only definition in society or amongst Christians. A lot of Christians and religious groups today don’t think same-sex relationships are sinful to begin with. You might disagree, but be mature enough to realize your definition of sin is rejected by many and is not universal. If that is the case, the notion of it being sin is irrelevant to those who don’t have rightwing religious beliefs.

@171….Good looking out Dolla. I signed that thing!

Look, ya’ll not gonna get nothing resolved with this Gay vs Christians debate or whatever. Just a lot of harsh words being said.

Ms Patti can say what she likes. It was a dumb move for Mandisa to voice her personal feelings like that. It cost her big time.

kind.

People bringing up the bible as a tool to condemn homosexuality just prove how much they don’t know about the bible itself.

I challenge everyone to do research on our “bible”. Learn how much of it was actually put into it to be used as a tool to snuff out paganism and give the church and the Roman Empire more control. How much of it is basically STOLEN Greek philosophy. Discover how little of it actually came from God. There is more scholarly arguments out there now proving that the VERY FEW passages that are considered to be condemning homosexuality really had nothing to do with the concept of homosexuality. Hell, when most of the bible was written the concept of homosexuality didn’t even exist.
http://www.christiancommu...lle.com/homosexuality.pdf

Judah–you really are one backwater man, aren’t you? You diss the white man and then praise they Book that they wrote.

There is a reason why homophobic persons tend to be less educated than gay-friendly people. If you really took the time to research the history of how the Bible was written, put together from many sources and books, uncovered from manuscripts, translated, misused, etc, you would realize it is not the inerrant word of God. For instance, scholars confirm that what we know as the Old Testament was actually not written until around the third or fourth century B.C. during the Jewish exiles, yet the Old Testament purports to record events centuries earlier. Likewise, what we know as the New Testament was put together over centuries and determined by a simple vote. Many church leaders and scholars throughout the centuries have felt that some of the books in there should not be in there, while others like the Gospel of Thomas should have been included. Martin Luther thought that James and Revelation was not inspired and shouldn’t be in the Bible. The fact is we don’t even have the original manuscripts to even know how accurate the copies we discovered are. The Bible is not inerrant nor should it be worshipped. Stop trying to force ignorance into other people’s lives.

Christina??? I guess she never heard “dirty”. What about…. India Arie, Erykah, Jill, Mary, Floetry… come on -Christina? So bubblegum.

come on -Christina? So bubblegum.

You obviously have not heard her Stripped album Bubblegum by no means LOL>

Christina??? I guess she never heard “dirty”. What about…. India Arie, Erykah, Jill, Mary, Floetry… come on -Christina? So bubblegum

It is funny how people assume that a couple of songs represent a whole album b/c honestly majority of the songs on Stripped were not bubblegum pop.

But Apparently Patti knows that and you don’t.

You obviously have not read the other posts b/c (HER FIRST ALBUM)Christina NEVER wanted to do bubblegum Pop music in the first place that is why she underwent new management.

#185 Where have you been in the last 6 years BUbblegum pop when she first came out yeah but seriously UMMM no.

Although she still sings Pop as well as Beyonce it is not bubblegum pop. The only people still doing that shiit is Jessica simpson.

Christina is so not bubblegum….that girl can really, really sing! She has more soul and can do more with her voice than Beyonce or Jessica could ever do! Now Jessica is bubblegum no question! Beyonce is a glorified pop singer!

#54 you are on the money with that comment thank you!

I don’t think anyone who has heard Christina’s stripped album or has seen her live can say that she doesn’t have soul. This day and age you don’t have to be dark-skinned, big-boned, with some funky afro hairstyle to be soulful, but apparently that’s what some of you think.

To me, Christina Aguilera is the modern-day Teena Marie. Now lets try to see someone say that Lady T ain’t got soul.

@ 70

wow. i cosign to the fullest. very well said. and asbury, you are always damn right lol

um a cake with marshmellows n jellybean n apples? cooked in a microwave? how nasty is that!

@ 67 - I certainly believe that some music has color. For instance many blues songs arose out of the struggles that blacks suffered when adjusting to being “free” after the Civil War and migrating to areas north like NY, Chicago and Detroit. Many of those styles were sampled and imitated through the years and now we have the extremely watered down version that reveals too much without saying anything.

@70 Making Faces - You nailed that right on the head and even though I was raised Christian I was also raised to understand that not everybody else was. LOL at the Biblical Signing Statements!

@84 bill - wow. let’s be easy with all of that. While I feel you on loving the sinner and hating the sin, it is unfair to categorize like that. there are many instances of “down low” people because we are not an accepting community and extremely homophobic so very few are willing to come out. For those that do, I can’t imagine, it can’t be easy. But, as abstract and difficult as it is for me as a straight woman to understand, it is 2006 and it is time to realize it’s not a fad or just something to do. Gay relationships exist and those relationships are not all about sex any more than your meaningful relationships are. Just love without all the restrictions…

#83 Raul - are u sure it’s just Black females trying to be white? Huh!

i see she speaks her mind a hell of alot lol. but i think x-tina is good and leela is good too. x-tina aint jus tryin to bring in the black crowd..thats what she grew up listenin to and she bringin it to da table. im behind her 100 percent.

and its good she saw lil kim on lockdown. i wonder if lil kim ate that cake they cooked her?

#195 Well I was refering to the comment that Whites steal our music it is not just a one way street.
Plus I see nothing wrong with Christina HONORING old soul artists if she wanted to bring in the Black crowd then she would have released the more R&B sounding sogns from her Stripped Album. Dirrty, Beautiful and Fighter are not R&B sounding.

Seeing as though her second single from this album is going to be a song like Boogie Woogie Bugle boy (WHich would not be played on Urban station b/c it is pop) I’d say she is genuine with what she is trying to do with her album this chick wrote an essay to the producers to tell them why she likes Billie Holliday and Nina Simone. So I’m sure if she would not go that far to make an album that was not geniune.

Hair weaves like European Fake nail done by Koreans Come AGAIN. Lauryn Hill.

NUFF said

NOt to mention that A lot of us likes to glorify Mobb life and many Italians don’t even like us.

# 122…yeaaaaaaaaa…no

Let me start by clarifying that I by no means am pushing a doctrine or trying to be long-winded. I’m just responding to the retorts regarding my Patti Labelle and biblical comments.

@174, Mr. Miagee: that precept in James 2:10 starts from verse 8 and is a quote from Lev 19:18. It doesn’t say that all the laws are equal, it says that you have to keep all the laws, lol. Christ said the same thing in Matt 5:17. The only way that you could prove that all the laws were equal is to read the penaltes for them in Leviticus, and there are different penalties for the 613 laws. By the way, to sin, um, is to break God’s laws. His laws were only given to the Israelites (i.e. Psalms 147:19,20, Matt 15:24, Rom 9:4, etc.)

@175 Cass: Anyone who does research (which most niggas don’t do) knows that the vast majority of the entertainment industry, Patti LaBelle included, is heavily involved in witchcraft and satanism. You can pick up the symbols that they use in their videos if you read and put down the marijuana. People with similiar beliefs ususally have similiar thought processes, so why the f*ck would I interview everyone who agrees with homosexuality. Nigga please. As far as the pedophile analogy, you illustrated my point for me. Don’t you know that there are large segments of upper crust society that see nothing wrong with pedophilia. Your standards have been set by the mainstream, you have no autonomous thought process you damn robot.

@176 & 184 Javier: I’m going to voice my opinion, and do, whenever and wherever the f*ck I feel like voicing it and an army of sambos couldn’t stop me. You know what’s funny, you “open-minded” people always want to censor those that disagree with you. Most “educated” people believe that we came from “apes” and that there was a “Big Bang” when there is plenty of scientific proof to refute that. As far as your comments on the antiquity of the scriptures, let me correct you because you don’t know wtf you’re talking about. Scholars have disputed claims regarding the actual writing of the scriptures, hence, they don’t know because their carbon-14 dating systems are unreliable. Extrabiblically speaking, archaeologists have the stelas of the Egyptian pharoah Merneptah and the various kings of Assyria during the 8th century B.C that corroborate the biblical accounts of the exodus and the captivity of the 10 tribes. I know a brother that has the parshitta bible which has the aramaic language that the Israelites spoke coming back from the Babylonian captivity. What’s the real beef though, you a faggot? If you are then continue on, lol.

@177 RevJake (lol)….look man, if you’re really a reverend then you know damn well that the Bible has hate and condemnation, so stop. If that’s the case, then explain Psalms 5:5, 139:21,22, Malachi 1:2-4, Romans 9:13, etc. Hell, even Christ called Herod out his name in Luke 13:31,32. Don’t pray for me, pray for those brothers in jail for crimes that they didn’t commit. I can pray for myself, thanx.

@178 MalcolmK…You must be Malcolm X’s retarded cousin. If those things are allowed by God, then who the hell allows it? I know that you’re not stupid enough to believe that Satan can do anything unless he gets permission from God, or maybe your dumb ass is, lol.

@181 & 182 TarHeelDude…did I ever say that my views are for anyone but myself? I don’t give a f*ck about you, your wife, son, or your faggot ass family members. The definition of sin is I John 3:4. If people agreed with me I would think that I was saying something wrong. If Christ and all the martyrs were just preaching “love, love” then why the hell did they all end up killed.

@183 PittBoi, my favorite “intellectual”, lol. We’ve went at it before, you should know better. Instead of doing “research” on the Bible, people should READ it first so that when they comment on it they can know wtf they’re talking about. The Romans did not use the Bible to stomp out paganism b/c they were pagans themselves, lol. They were forced to convert to Christianity because Rome had been overrun by Christians and Israelites when Constantine forced the conversion. How can it be stolen Greek philosophy when the Greeks were known homosexuals and pedophiles, please. If anything certain reknowned ancient Greeks: Socrates, Plato, Pythagoras, were known to teach from the Torah according to Aristobulus, an Alexandrian Jew who lived in the 2nd century b.c. The concept of homosexuality didn’t exist? LOL. Then you’ll have to give me your “scholarly” breakdown of Lev 18:22, 20:13, I Kings 15:11,12, Romans 1:25-32, etc. As far as the white man writing the Bible; that was the most ignorant of the many ignorant statements you made. When you READ the Bible, it’s very obvious that the Hebrews were negroes, lol. The Romans that you give so much credit for compiling the scriptures were black Roman citizens that took over Rome as of 193 A.D. with the Severand Dynasty. http://citygate.ancients....%20severus%20isaura-o.jpg Do YOUR research, lol.

(199) First of all, you don’t know me so don’t act like you do and FYI ,”Nigga”, I don’t smoke…neva have ,neva will…and yes I do research and/or read…but I guess the difference between you and me is that I don’t believe everything that I read and I don’t believe everything that comes up in a book or on a computer screen or out of someone’s mouth when I do research…and just so you know…my standards have been set by me, myself, and I and just because I don’t agree with the hypocritical bullshit you post doesn’t mean otherwise…oh yeah, your constant use of the word “Nigga” shows just how ignorant you are… or maybe you’re just a fucking rascist…

To those who like to classify Homosexuality
(E.g. Gay, Bi-Sexual, DL).

Question: If a Man is on the DL will he ADMIT that he has homosexual tendencies? . Answer: NO

You, as a women won’t know until it’s too late,

You won’t know until you are sitting up in your doctor’s office, looking at the AIDS test results.

Sin has consequences.

Question: Do we really have time to figure out the variation of homosexuality the person is into?

For the Life of me, I can not understand Bi-Sexual and those on the DL:
Do they wake up on Monday and say…”Hmm, I feel like I’ll have some Vagina today”, then on Thursday, they say, “Hmm I think I’ll Have some Penis today”.
It just doesn’t make any damm sense

Homosexual are very complicated & confused people.

I believe they are truly unhappy, and as a result, they have multiple sex partners, go out cruising, shoplifting, excessive clubbing, and they need to take drugs in order to have sex with each other.

And all of the Lesbian women that I know that are in Relationships are in Abusive Lesbian relationships, where one woman has domination over another.

I see a lot of women who are in Lesbian Relationships, because of loneliness.
They really desire to be with a man, but since there are not enough men to go around, these lonely women are being Seduced by an Older “Butch” women into an abusive/submissive relationship.

Now, I don’t claim to be an Expert on the state of Homosexuality.

That really isn’t my focus. This is just my opinion & observations from working as a social worker for the past 20 years.

And I don’t hate Homosexual.
I don’t agree with their sexual practices. It is an abomination to God.

That not what Bill says, this is what GOD says.
Now if you want to disagree with God, and tell God he is wrong, then that’s on YOU.

You can get mad at me, and write me hate mail for days, but you’re not going to change MY opinion. And I may not change yours. BUT at least I got you to THINK, and not to be so accepting of everything because it is politically correct to embrace homosexuality.

People want Christians to just “stay in our lane” shout in church, hand out tracts on the corner, and feed the poor. But when we observe something that is “not right” and comment on it, People love to quote the scripture “Judge not or be ye Judged”

Some People got it twisted. Some People are really confused about Christians, The Bible, God & Jesus Christ.

But you know what, at the end of the day, after you have gotten mad at me for stating my opinion & observation

Jesus Saves!!!
Jesus CAN Heal and Jesus WILL deliver you from Homosexuality.

Some people say they were “born this way”
Some people say it was a conscience choice they made.
Some people say that they were molested as a child or raped in Prison.

Whatever your circumstances may be, you don’t have to be ashamed or feel guilty.

Jesus Saves.
Peace.

Guys listen to Back to Basics when it’s released. Then decide for yourself if she has soul. I’ve heard it & I definetely think she does.

Just because some of us don’t feel it necessary to do God’s job(judge) doesn’t mean that you’re any better then we are and it doesn’t mean that you’re going to heaven any faster then we are…and I can’t understand for the life of me WHY people who “claim” not to be gay and are constantly saying that being gay is wrong make such a big fuss over the issue!…I mean, if you’re not gay then don’t worry about what they do!…and in reference to #201, MAYBE when you Christians “observe things that aren’t right and comment on them” you should remember that scripture that says…”Judge not or be ye Judged”…

(202) They don’t even have to wait…they can just go out and get “Stripped” right now…

Now that we gotten that out of the way, let’s get back on topic.

Here is a Link of a True Soul Singer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgJUc6Badm4

Gladys Knight & the Pips “I Don’t Want To Do Wrong.”

Enjoy & Good Night (or Good Morning)
Peace

SINCE WHEN DID CL TURN INTO A FUCKING BIBLE CLASS??

No doubt mizzlizz. I was wondering the same thing! I thought the topic was Patti. This is exactly why kind’s suggestion (a while back) about CL creating a seperate thread for non-entertainment topics was a good idea. But I guess since this is a gossip blog, and the “powers that be” can do whatever they want, that won’t happen.

I think I’m about to start my own blog then. I can see there is clearly a need! Some people on here really need a place to vent about social/moral/political (etc.) issues. But this is certainly not the place to do it if you ask me.

if people want to be gay, then that is their right and their business, but DO NOT try to push that s*** on me that it’s not wrong. I do believe in what the bible says, but I want to know why people think that they can edit out certain parts like SODOM & Gommorah? like I said you can live your life like you want, but i’m not going to let anyone push their views on me, Patti Labelle included

Looks like you need to take one Mizzliz. Im sure there is a church that you could slide in and find some respect.* Cant wait to hear your most enlightening rebuttal*

209- DAMN THAT WAS A VERBAL PIMP SLAP IF IVE EVER HEARD ONE!

Judah

Sorry for the length of this post.

“@183 PittBoi, my favorite “intellectual”, lol. We’ve went at it before, you should know better.”

—And you should know better than to think that this is all it takes to shut me up. lol

“Instead of doing “research” on the Bible, people should READ it first so that when they comment on it they can know wtf they’re talking about. The Romans did not use the Bible to stomp out paganism b/c they were pagans themselves, lol. They were forced to convert to Christianity because Rome had been overrun by Christians and Israelites when Constantine forced the conversion.”.

—You may be partially right about this, but you’re excluding all that happened leading up to the turn. The turn to Christianity didn’t just happen overnight. No, and Constantine wouldn’t have been Emperor for long if he had tried to convert Rome to a religion nobody had heard of. You make it seem as though Christianity fell from heaven in a gift-wrapped box. Christianity had been around in Rome for some time before Constantine, where do you think all those false stories about how Christians were persecuted everyday in Rome came from? Leading up to Constantine, Christianity was a small religion that was gradually gaining steam but wasn’t politically represented. There was no bible yet, but early church fathers were starting to immerge, as well as a few scattered (mostly Gnostic) writings. However, since Christianity was still a fairly new religion in the time leading up to Constantine (No, they hadn’t yet tied Christianity to Judaism), nobody respected it in comparison to Judaism and Paganism, which had been around for much longer. The church then knew that the only way they would get respect would be to take from the teachings and philosophies of other older religions and civilizations and make it their (you know, that whole “this was God’s plan all along” argument). A lot of ideas were stolen from Paganism, a lot of dates to be precise (The date of Jesus’s birth December 25 was placed there in order to snuff out the birthday of a Pagan god that was worshipped mostly by the Roman army. Jesus’ actual birthday is nowhere near dec 25).

“How can it be stolen Greek philosophy when the Greeks were known homosexuals and pedophiles, please.”

—Oh Please, the whole concept of the order of the universe is ripped off from the Greeks. Look up the Urge and Demiurge, as well as the Platonic Model of the Universe. Early Christians also jacked the Greek’s idea of the pre-existence of souls (which was a fairly new concept at the time). These are all concepts that the early church fathers would steal in order to explain the nature of our Christian God. Don’t use their Sexuality to say the Greeks weren’t excellent scholars and philosophers that were emmulated by a lot of religions and cultures, and this includes Christianity. Christians would go on to say that they didn’t “steal” these things from the Greeks, that they used them because God “put them there for them”. Ha, more like the needed some way to make Christianity a more credible religion at the time.

“If anything certain reknowned ancient Greeks: Socrates, Plato, Pythagoras, were known to teach from the Torah according to Aristobulus, an Alexandrian Jew who lived in the 2nd century b.c.”

–But you’re forgetting something. The Torah wasn’t a part of Christian doctrine until very late in the game. Again, that was something the Christians adopted to give credibility to their religion. And, while a small bit of this may be true (they did speak on the Torah). It would be Socrates’ and Plato’s own teachings that would gain fame and be taken.

“The concept of homosexuality didn’t exist? LOL. Then you’ll have to give me your “scholarly” breakdown of Lev 18:22, 20:13,”

–At the time of these writings, there was a heavy importance placed on cleanliness as well as procreation. These scriptures at the time weren’t condemning homosexuality as something to be shunned or something God said was evil, but were speaking against it because, well, Gay sex didn’t make babies (which the Jews really needed at the time). Remember Onan, the guy God struck down for spilling his seed on the ground?

I Kings 15:11,12

—Ok, Judah, I thought you were an intelligent man until this. Surely you know about the MOUNTAINS of evidence proving that the last thing God destroyed Sodom for was homosexuality.

Romans 1:25-32,

—Again, this was Paul speaking out against rituals that took place in the nearby pagan temples. Not against all homosexuals.

“etc. As far as the white man writing the Bible; that was the most ignorant of the many ignorant statements you made. When you READ the Bible, it’s very obvious that the Hebrews were negroes, lol. The Romans that you give so much credit for compiling the scriptures were black Roman citizens that took over Rome as of 193 A.D. with the Severand Dynasty. http://citygate.ancients&...%20severus%20isaura-o.jpg Do YOUR research, lol.”

—I think I did do my research. The Severan Dynasty occupied very little of the Roman timeline for you to try and claim they were responsible for the entire writings of the bible. No, there were arguments about what should be considered Christian doctrine dating before, and after the Septimius Severus. Heck, the first bible wasn’t even printed for over a thousand years after this. Trust me, more white hands touched it than you think.

# 197
Yes people do glorify mob life, however other races glorify our race just as well. Blacks are the most hated/loved ppeople on the face of this Earth. All races fashion themselves after us, if they didn’t the tanning industry wouldn’t be a billion dollar industry. Besides who the hell do you think is purchasing the majority of our music, we all know it isn’t Blacks.
I take it you’re a man because a woman would have never made such an outlandish comment. One wearing a weave doesn’t mean they’re trying to be white, I wore them because I didn’t want to do my hair. Just as I go to the salon because I don’t want to do my hair. As for the nails, so what women get their mans done, it has nothing too do with wanting to be white, all nationalities get their nails done. Try something else because that holds no weight., now you come again.

# 201
I’m so tired of your self righteous ass. Maybe this is the reason you can’t find a woman because you think you’re holier then thou. I hate to be the one to tell you BUT ask any gay man where the majority of DL men are located and they will tell you the church. For you to say gays are unhappy people is such an incredulously asinine statement but then again I expected it from a know it all such as yourself. I’m not here to change your opinion, I know for a fact gays dont care what you or anyone else for that matter thinks of them. I could care less if so called “christian” preach the word of God, the only thing I ask is you all start living it first before you try to tell someone else what they’re doing wrong. Church people are the most hypocritical sinners I’ve “EVER” encountered but you all are so damn fast to tell ours to live right. Look at the state of the church now, it’s nothing but a cash cow high end fashion show, yet you all wanna preach about what others do, FUCK ALL OF YOU, oh yeah and your pastor too!!!!! You haven’t made me think, why you all seem to think your opinion is so damn highly valued is a mystery to me. Deflate that enormous ego of yours and come down off your pedestal NO ONE worships “you”.

pittbboi, if I start a blog (on social/moral issues as I stated above), will you visit it? You always have so much to say and are so articulate, respectful and entertaining.

“I hate to be the one to tell you BUT ask any gay man where the majority of DL men are located and they will tell you the church.”

I HAVE to co-sign. I CAN’T tell you how many times I’ve been hit on by “straight” men in the black church. But Pittbboi don’t mess around with those DL fools. All I can say is, watch out for those ushers….

And I hate this “obviously gays don’t like their lifestyle because they are unhappy” argument. You wanna know why we gays are so unhappy? Because we can’t do simple things like live and breathe and love without being hassled and harrassed everywhere we go by people like you, 201.

“pittbboi, if I start a blog (on social/moral issues as I stated above), will you visit it? You always have so much to say and are so articulate, respectful and entertaining.”

Wow, thanks for the compliment. Sure I’ll visit, I love blogs.

I also want to um.. Be schooled by Pittboi. Homie knows his stuff.

Pittboi you need to write a book or teach some class’s at my college lol.

**Changes Major to Pittboi Ology**

@212 asbury - Thank you for typing that so I didn’t have to. Raul said “NUFF SAID” like what Lauryn Hill says is gospel. (And like I didn’t know it was Lauryn Hill’s quote. Duh!) I like L Boogie but I don’t exactly try to take to the bank a woman who has spent the last 6 or 7 years…Well I will let you fill in the blanks… But folks kill me with that “getting weave to be white…” So when white women wear weave they are trying to be like….? I haven’t heard anybody say that sh!t since the mid-90s. Raul…Yeah anyway, NEXT!

@214 - pittboi - I have learned that people take what they want out of the Bible and out of church. It’s never going to be the same across the board, but what I try to take out of it is love. What you and asbury point out about our churches is sad , but undeniably true. Sure, nobody can (or really wants) to change bill’s mind because he is man who believes completely and totally in his faith, which is to be commended and appreciated. But at the same time, while I can’t comment on his church, I know that in my city every time I go to a church (visiting or otherwise) the church is full of men (and women) hitting on other people of the same sex after they just got through shouting to the rooftops about how wrong it is. Like I said before, homosexuality is hard for me to understand but if I am to believe the Bible and the lessons of the church, God does give us a free will and even if someone else’s choices and lifestyle are different than our own, we’re still supposed to love and let God’s love do its work right? I don’t know, i could be wrong. I don’t see myself as liberal or conservative, just someone who doesn’t care about what someone else does in their personal life, only that people treat others with respect and concern because they (regardless of what others may think) are still one of God’s children and for that deserves love. Maybe the issue of homosexualoty should be discussed in the church…maybe it’s not a good idea, who knows? My personal thought is that, as pittboi noted, the way gay people are sometimes treated is horrendous and that’s what may cause the “unhappiness.” If I were to use the gauge used to measure “unhappiness” I would think that black folks are “unhappy” people too as we are sometimes treated like lepers, too. Regardless of your opinions, this string helps to further confirm the thought that my relationship with God is just that…mine. Who are we to question someone else’s relationship with their God regardless of what you may think is right or wrong? I would like to see religion actually band people together rather than used as instrument to knock people upside the head with…

that was really long… my apologies…

#65 Thats the damn truth. These people act like Christina can do no wrong when it comes to singing. Sometimes she sounds like a 12 year old trying to imitate the ladies at church.

#96 Thank you

#108 LMFAO!!!

And finally I wish some of you would stop that bullshit about Patti and all these other women being legends so we should take their opinion as fact and final say. Last time I checked my ears still processed sound thus enabling me to form a valid opinion on what I hear. If Patti told you all the sound of shit hitting the toilet bowl was music you dumb fucks would try to download it and put it on your ipods.

ummm Did I not say that it is not always a one way street I don’t need you guys pointing out stuff about Whites an dother razces steazling from us I was just pointing out it is not a one way street DAMN>

I just have a question.

I usually come on this site to get the latest news, because I don’t really comment on anything.

Because if I did then people would take it too seriously and wirte me an essay about why I am wrong. (Not trying to call anybody out)

On other sites people don’t do that they would not give 2 shiits about me saying christina or beyonce are my favorite singers in the world.They would not point out songs that they messed up b/c it is not necessary.

But on here people can’t have fun or just comment on a post without replying to someone.Why is it like that? Even on Cake and Ice cream they don’t reply to other posters as much as people on concreteloop do?

I am just wondering why is everything on here taken sooo seriously?

You don’t have ot reply, but I am just wondering.

^ Because the dynamics are different C&I has its place. To me this is a smarter blog. Angel La sometimes intellectualizes black pop culture with ideas from Bill Cosby along with other little known black social thinkers and artists like Saul W.

I can actually appreciate most of this. I don’t always agree but some of these posts (even the really controversial ones) are very well written and persuasive.

I think the posts are at 200 plus because these are conversations we are NOT having. There is no where else I know where to go where a diverse group of black folks are talking about homosexuality, the black middle class, pop culture, state of black america etc etc.

There is obviously an untapped need thus the popularity.

Life isn’t all cake and ice cream. sorry.

# 220
CL has more intellectuals than other sites, so naturally we’re going to debate our point however void it may be.
A good debate is good for the brain cells, it helps keep us on our P’s & Q’s. At the end of the day there are no hard feelings and we love one another like a fake cousin, so it’s all good.

Besides you know Black folk don’t like to be wrong, lol

i dont feel like signing in said:
Angel La sometimes intellectualizes black pop culture with ideas from Bill Cosby along with other little known black social thinkers and artists like Saul W.

————————-
@ 221 - I think that was the intent in the beginning but I fail to see that as the real reason now. And coincidentally, it appears to me that in the beginning, when that was the MO, fewer people repsonded. I think when it went to straight entertainment, that’s when things started to pick up. (This is purely from observation looking at old posts because I didn’t start coming on here until April 2006). But at least that’s what brought people here to begin with so there could be some viability to your theory.

@220 - What I’ve witnessed is people taking a post about Beyonce’s video for example (and I am only going there because she seems to cause the most controversy on here) and turning into a whole new subject matter. This includes anything from the designation of race or class (eg. black IS or IS NOT Creole), to the impact of {her} sexuality on the youth in America (eg. Why she shaking so hard?? My kids can’t watch that!!). And let’s not even get into whether or not it’s HAIR or WEAVE!

I agree with 221 that this is a smarter blog and I also agree with 222 that black folk really like to get their points across at all costs. But mostly, I just think CL is really lucky that it attracts such a diverse array of bloggers because to be honest with you, some of the EXACT same stuff that shows here is on other sites at the EXACT same time.

Maybe the best way to get an answer to your question is to do exactly what you just did: Ask the peeople themselves. They can say it best.

And FYI, the reason I’m on here is because a friend mentioned this site to me a few months back. I had never blogged before and it was really interesting reading all these different opinions. Plus, it was funny as hell!! Black folks are some colorful and candid people. It was so entertaining to me that I just came back to see what other crazy stuff people would say next. It’s free, daily entertainment, and to be honest, that’s what most of us are looking for (IMO).

patti need to sit her ass down…

Christina is a good singer in any genre. Patti can sing, but I definitely don’t agree with her Mandisa comments. Did she say she is making a Gospel album? How funny?

Thumbs up to Bill and Judah. Judah, you are just as intelligent. When people don’t want to hear the truth, they start going off. People didn’t want to hear what Jesus had to say either. Anyway, I’m glad Mandisa didn’t sell out. Jesus is first in her life, not fans of AI. She can go to Gospel or just sing in her church. God will make a way for her. I’m sure she (me too) would rather hear Jesus say “Well done good and faithful servant” than “I know you not” on Judgement Day!

I meant to type “How Funny!!!”

Thanks for replying.

I did not mean that cake and icecream was the greatest site though (see what I mean).LOL. I was just giving an example( a bad one though). Anyway , see how someone could be taken the wrong way when the poster was just giving an example. I see this a lot on Concreteloop and in this topic too.

But don’t you guys think that some people are being sarcastic. I go to this one site, (well it is more of a discussion thread) if I make a sarcastic comment about Beyonce or some other star, the fans of that star would just laugh. They would not get all serious about it because it was just a joke.

And sometimes there are intelligent conversations about important topics as well.

So I mean I understand where you guys are coming from though and I am not trying to be mean for anyone who is going to jump down my back (not to say that you two did)

But I guess when I see a comment section I really don’t expect long drawn out perspectives.LOL.

I understand though, but I guess I am doing it too though.LOL

puhlease people being homosexual/bi/bi-curious is not a sin. if it is then wuh ur saying is being w/ some1 that u luv and care for is wrong. negative thinking bout homosexuality/transexuals is why there are new blk aids cases erday and why blk teens committ suicide/cry everynite b/c they are dif

Do you see Monique? Do you see how even YOU defended your own position even though you didn’t have to?: {I was just giving an example( a bad one though)}…{So I mean I understand where you guys are coming from though and I am not trying to be mean for anyone who is going to jump down my back (not to say that you two did)}.

What causes that? My opinion? The thought of the CL creators looming over you, daring you not to respond and defend your honor!
**goes into sinister laugh**
MMMMMWWWWWHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH (LOL)

Yeah but she also said in her own post that she did it too though and in her original post she also said that is why she does not like to comment cuz people are going to jump down her back.

So I am confused by your statement #228.

Anyway some of you guys seriously need to get a life you can’t get mad at someone (Patti ) for stating HER opinions even if you don’t agree with them.

Quincy, who was jumpin down her back? I was being humorous, trying to make her laugh. you just proved the girl’s point your damn self by overanalyzing what the fuck I wrote. What the fuck??? Can’t even say shit without 100 motherfuckers taking it the wrong way, or criticizing or clowning? I don’t even waste my time responding to the shit people post except for bitches who try to come at me like they hard or people like you who feel the need to ask me dumb ass questions. Do you just need to be heard? Do you just need for your motherfucking name to be in lights? WHAT THE FUCK IS IT!

I agree with #226 that when people give examples on here like RAul did people jumped down his back for it when it was just an example he did not say that Whites or other races don’t do it too he just said it was a one way street.

But #228 she said in her post that she did it too and that is one of the reasons that she does not comment . LOL. But I guess you did not understand what she was saying.LOL.

IT is called Sarcastic people look it up in the dictionary. #231 and #229

#230 I thought it was funny.

patti sounds madd ignorant here

it sounds so fake….until i read girl u betta recognize

Monique, I’m glad you understood my joke. That’s all that matters. The rest can eat a dick.

Biblically it is a SIN to be homosexual and Mandisa being the Christian that she is will be blessed by God for saying what she said. Patti was just trying to gain support from the gay community. However, I would much rather gain support from Jesus Christ and that is what Mandisa has done as a Christian. You can only understand this if you understand the bible.

Patti sounds like she’s losing her mind. That old woman seems to be missing a few screws and I generally like her (until this interview with her).

#231 - I simply responded to Raul’s statement about black women wearing weave = them wanting to be white. It is my opinion and that of many others who do and don’t wear weave that that is an incorrect statement and it didn’t jive right with me. To me it came across as a broad and insulting statement so I responded. I don’t think it’s so out of the realm of reason to expect a person or persons to respond to a sweeping generalization that I happen to be a part of. He may have been making a good point, but TO ME it just wasn’t a good example. I really hope nobody takes this Internet blog thing that seriously that they feel like their “throats are being jumped down.” Guys, it’s just a discussion with other intelligent folks. Take from it and learn from it. The parts you don’t like, just ignore! Not that serious…
And I thought #228 Ispeak’s comment was funny and a good attempt at answering a question and lightening the mood. Cheer up!!

but #237 He did not say all black women and he did not say wear weave in general it was an EXample though.

Like someone else said we analyze comments TOOO much.

whats to be confused? about there are some homopboic people in this site and they need to stop it. im not talkin bout patti shih i barely scanned her booty chatter interview it’s jus watered down shih. patti wudent bite the hand that feeds her, and buys her ratty clothes on hsn

Thank you #239 People just like to nitpick

Anmd BTW I am Black just becasue my name is Raul don’t meah shiit.

I di not say just wear weave I said imitate and I did not mean all Black women.

What do you really know about the bible, Melissa? What your pastor tells you? Explain. Because nowadays you see a lot of people quick to condemn everyone according to what they THINK the bible says. They did that with the slaves…

One thing that I cannot defend Christianity about is this: Christianity is one of the few religions out there that doesn’t teach it’s followers about its history. And sorry, but Christian doctrine is NOT Christian history. The bible isn’t enough. Hell, WARS have been faught over mis-interpretations of the bible, so anyone thinking that it’s ok to live their life according to it (and not just use it as an inspirational tool)without doing any study or research of their own is more of a blind sheep than a Christian. People really need to know the history behind the bible, behind Christianity, so they can have a better understanding of what is right, and what is wrong.

And I’m sad to say this, but the Christians out there that can grasp both the history and the doctrine are the ones who aren’t out there being dooped by the “holy hustlers” who say amen and have lots of followers, and then turn around and sell prayer rags for five bucks. They aren’t out there condemning people because their pastor told them to. They’re not out there voting for a president who wants to go to war with the world and waste countless lives just because he doesn’t like gays.

#238 where the hell did Raul say wearing weaves= trying to be white cuzz I am reading it and I don’t see it.

He put a quote from Lauryn Hill she also said fake nails by Koreans. I’m sorry but putting a quote up does not equate to Wearing weaves= trying to be White.

YOu need to calm down.

What do you really know about the bible, Melissa? What your pastor tells you? Explain. Because nowadays you see a lot of people quick to condemn everyone according to what they THINK the bible says. They did that with the slaves.

Thank You BACK IN THE DAY ACCORDING TO WHITES THE BIBLE ALSO SAID NEGROES WERE INFERIOR WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY NOT TRUE WAKE UP DON”T LET THESE PEOPLE BRAIN WASH YOU HAVE YOUR OWN MIND>

DID YOU ALSO KNOW THAT WHITES FORCED CHRISTIANITY ON AFRICAN SLAVES>

This is so sad how the hell can Black people discriminate when they know how it feels to be disccriminated against.

And the y wan tto say accroding to the Bible it is a sinn..THAT IS BS>

People also thought that The Bible also said that Negroes were inferior in order to make it order to make it okay for Blacks to be slaves.

THINK FOR YOURSELF PEOPLE FOR ALL WE KNOW THE BIBLE WAS TRANSLATED TO ENGLISH BY SOMEONE WHO PUT HIS OWN BELIEFS IN THERE>

In the immortal words of Luther Vandross…
You’ve got me going in circles…Oh, around and around I go…

Seems like we’re back to square 1 people.

Can’t we all just agree to disagree and stop trying so hard to prove our points about sin, homosexuality and the Bible?

I feel like Rodney King up in this piece!

#243 ummm - Post #83 “Just like a lot of Black women trying to be white” then he went on to post Lauryn Hill’s quote…/”Hair weaves like Europeans.” You didn’t scroll up to his other post. If he is not saying that SOME black women are wearing weaves to be white, then what was the point of his post? Trust, I am calm, chillin under the AC. Not that serious. YOU calm down, it’s too hot for all that now…

That’s not nitpicking Raul, once again I just didn’t like the example and that isn’t gonna change so you like it I love it regardless of who agrees or disagrees. Your right to post a bad example, it’s all good. It’s still a bad example.

No, you are right #239 Harlow he did not say all black women, thank you for not ANALYZING my statement too closely. As I have already said, I am aware that it was an example, and it’s a bad one. Period.
Peace.

And BTW did someone question your being black Raul? No, for real not being smart I just didn’t see the post that asked that…

It was just a quote get over it the quote also said fake nails done by Koreans.

I NEVER SAID THAT Wearing weaves=Trying to be WHite.WTF

That was not my intention.

#247 you were analyzing it too much .
Raul I did not get that you were saying that Black women wear weaves to be White.

#247 Just like to put words in people mouths.

That was probably the only quote he could think of at the time, I see why Monique does not post here I don’t blame her.

Ok I wasn’t the only person that got that from your posts, so, again, not to be funny, it’s cool let it go. I didn’t like your example that’s it. Get over it Raul.

@ 209

Honestly, I’m not even gonna bother with you. I’m just gonna say this: if I wanted to take a bible class or listen to someone rant about how homosexuals are digusting and immoral [meanwhile when these same poeple go to church, they say things such as, "OMG, look what she is wearing?! Wow, she is only giving ten dollars!", because church is now the social event of the week to SOME PEOPLE] then I would go to my local church on Friday nights and learn something. I thought this topic was about PATTI LABELLE; I didn’t come here to hear some wannabe preachers tell me HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE.

Actually, you learn some respect. I voiced my opinion, and you decided to comment and insult me. So, do me a favor, keep my name out of YOUR mouth, honey, and RELAX, IT IS NOT THAT SERIOUS. =]

And that’s your opinion #250. That’s really great. Just like this whole discussion about the Bible and what it says, it is very easy to see that one person’s words can be interpreted one way by one person and heard differently by someone else. That’s fine, that’s what I got from it you got something else. I write a long post on loving each other even with their differences and #250, this is what you choose to speak about? Just like a ? to comment on the silly stuff, not what really matters…

ms_mac1 said:

“No doubt mizzlizz. I was wondering the same thing! I thought the topic was Patti. This is exactly why kind’s suggestion (a while back) about CL creating a seperate thread for non-entertainment topics was a good idea. But I guess since this is a gossip blog, and the “powers that be” can do whatever they want, that won’t happen.”

MOST DEF. a good idea. There are a lot of people here on CL that have some pent up frustrations about certain subjects, and need to express themselves, or fight with others lol

The girl from American Idol will have to do some serious soul searching if she is intent on pursuing her musical career. She will be blackballed unless she recants her statements and very few artists and producers will want to work with her because most of them are secretly gay and lesbian.

@211, PittBoi….Thank you for not giving up. I hate it when negroes give up. Let’s get to it:

1) Your obvious admiration for Greco-Roman philosophy and idealism is where you do yourself error in trying to understand the Bible. There was no need for the early Christians to “tie themselves to Judaism” because all the early Christians up to the forced conversion of the Roman Empire by Constantine were Israelites, lol. As far as the veracity of the Christian persecutions, once again you do error not knowing the history. The Christians, Jews, and Germanic tribes were customarily tortured because they were negroes that refused to Romanize themselves http://www.livius.org/cg-...christianity/tacitus.html & http://a1204.g.akamai.net...ges/11040000/11040505.jpg http://www.bookfinder4u.com/detail/0819174696.html. Let’s make a distinction between the “Christian church”, which is a slave “religion” taught to the negroes by the white man during slavery to make them docile, and the Word of God. I deal with the Bible, not the black church. The black church is not intellectually or biblically driven, it’s emotionally driven. It’s a place where negroes can compare suits and hats, speak jibberish, and jump up and down. As far as the assimilation of pagan holidays into the “Christian religion”, I couldn’t agree more, lol. http://a1204.g.akamai.net...mages/7680000/7687841.jpg. I’ve told many black Christians that Christmas and Easter are pagan but they don’t want to listen. Christ was born in the springtime near the Passover. (Luke 2:6-10)

2) The Greeks were not excellent scholars; they were good scholars and excellent thieves. They received their view of the universe from the Egyptians, Babylonians, and Persians (as Herodotus states). How could early Christians have gotten the notion of the pre-existence of the soul from the Greeks when the immutability of the soul and reincarnation were addressed in the scripture before Greece was a relevant power (Job 14:14,15, Ecc 1:9, 3:14,15, Matt 11:12-15, John 9:1-3). As a matter of fact, Alexander the Greek told his soldiers not to touch Jerusalem after the Levites showed him Daniel the 8th chapter. The early Christians did not need to “steal” from any other doctrine to “create” a God. Their God was the same God of the Hebrew Old Testament because THEY WERE ISRAELITES, lol. The “Gentiles” that Paul was teaching were scattered ISRAELITES, lol (too many scriptures to name). The churches act like the God of the New and Old Testament are two different entities because they are not disciplined or intelligent enough to relate the two and they cannot comprehend the prophecies of the OT. Plus they grasp on to the “love” aspect in the NT and think that that means that they can do whatever they want. The scripture tells you what love is (I John 5:3)

3) Nope…the Torah was a part of the Christian doctrine from the very beginning (Matt 5:17, Luke 10:25,26) because the Christians were Israelites that believed that Christ was the Messiah prophesied about in the OT. You’re under the misconception that Paul just went to anybody to convert, and that is just not the case. He went to the Romanized Jews. Once again, Plato and Socrates taught from the scripture and there is evidence that they may have been negroid hebrews http://www.malaspina.org/gif/socrates.jpg
http://www.activemind.com...Atlantis/images/plato.gif

4) This is where Patti Labelle is probably right. You can’t represent the Most High and be in the entertainment industry. Look man, I’m not going to argue with you about the stance on homosexuality in the Bible. If you’re a homosexual then that’s you, but Lev 20:13 expressly uses the term “abomination” which means evil. Simple as that. The scripture tells you that the Lord gave the Israelites laws aginst homosexuality amongst many other things because the nations that inhabited Canaan were doing these abominations and the Egyptians did them (Lev 18:3,26-29 and Deut 18:9-12), not because of “procreation”, lol. Now you’re trying to put your own spin on the scripture. What Onan did was wicked in the eyes of the Lord because if your brother dies you are to take his wife in honor of your brother(Deut 25:5-7), not because of “procreation”. If that were the case she can get impregnated by any man who was an Israelite, lol.

5) I’ve seen many so-called “scholarly” History Channel specials on the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. None of them have said that “they know the reason why God destroyed the cities”, lol. Unless you’re God I don’t think you can give me a reason why God destroyed the cities, lol. You can give me your alternative opinion, but that’s about it. I do know that from satellite shots of the cities they were scorched by what appears to be nuclear fire. Even the white man associates the destruction of the cities with the homosexual practices notated in the scripture(i.e. “SODOMY”), hint hint. LMAO.

6) Paul was referring to the Israelites scattered in the empire who took up the pagan practices of the heathen around them (Rom 9:1-4). Simple as that. He certainly wasn’t speaking to all homos because he wasn’t concerned with them.

7) This last point seems to be where you are the most confused. It’s probably my fault because I mis-worded my point. There were numerous negro factions in the Roman Empire during the Christian era (i.e. Carthaginians, Israelites, Christians, Germanic tribes, etc.) The Severand Dynasty was actually against Christianity and were great persecutors of them. You seem to be bent on when the Bible came into existence in its present incarnation, as if there were no written scriptures, lol. Archaeologists have found scriptures in Israel dating to the 6th century b.c. Whites had no say or influence on the Bible or its format until the Renaissance because during the “Dark Ages” blacks ruled Europe and forced the word on the pagan caucasian Europeans. We were the knights, kings, and queens while they were the serfs: http://www.shef.ac.uk/con...6/02/57/54/King%20John%20(tomb).jpg
http://yalepress.yale.edu...mages/full/0300082916.jpg
http://images.amazon.com/...939222108.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
http://www.tronchin.com/A...ture27_files/image044.jpg

I’ll end this by saying that I can respect the fact that at least you’re not simple. Say Uncle, lol.

#252 That is what I am talking about.

#252, mizzlizz-”Honestly, if I wanted to take a bible class or listen to someone rant about how homosexuals are digusting and immoral [meanwhile when these same poeple go to church, they say things such as, “OMG, look what she is wearing?! Wow, she is only giving ten dollars!”, because church is now the social event of the week to SOME PEOPLE] then I would go to my local church on Friday nights and learn something.”–LOL, because that is so true.

#242, I read the bible. I am not personally putting down homosexually as God loves EVERYONE but he hates ALL SIN and being a homosexual is a SIN along with sex out of wedloc, stealing, etc., so I’m not just talkinng about homosexuallity but all sin. Hey, I’m not sin free but I realize when I’m wrong and need to make it right.

I just wanted to explain that with Mandisa being a Christian I can understand completely when ASKED why she answered the way she did. Only thing, I would have answered differently, saying something like God Loves all people and so do I. That way, she would not have to out right insult anyone or endorse the wrong they are doing like Patti did. However, I would much rather her say what she said instead of patti endorsing homosexuality yet she has a gospel album coming out. She sounds like a nut.

Patti Needs prayer!

I read the St. James version of the bible. I don’t belong to cults. It is people on here thinking that the “white man” wrote the bible and therefore it means nothing who are brainwashed. I suggest all of you asking what do I know about the bible seek out a good church or bible study course.

I can name a few great pastors you can check out on line.

Bill Winston (bill winston ministeries)
Fred Price
Creflo Dollar
Andrew Womack
Paula White

All these pastors are great and there are many more (gave you some black and white). You can look them up on the internet and write them, ask them about the bible as I am not able to make you understand and I’m not here to make you understand.

I simply posted WHY mandisa answered the way she did, I don’t need people asking me to explain the bible to them.

Sorry, make that King James Version!!!!

But I love Patti, she just needs to be a litte easier on Mandisa. Mandisa is a young girl, new to the business and a Christian. Plus, those of you saying Mandisa need to recant, not if she is going in to Gospel music she doesn’t, she will fit right in.

On the other hand, If she wants to endorse homosexuality and put out a gospel album the next week that’s fine but I doubt her target audience (christians) are going to be interested in it. I don’t think homosexuals are interest in gospel music. So, look for that one not to sell many copies patti.

This is going to be a long post. I apologize…

“1) Your obvious admiration for Greco-Roman philosophy and idealism is where you do yourself error in trying to understand the Bible. There was no need for the early Christians to “tie themselves to Judaism” because all the early Christians up to the forced conversion of the Roman Empire by Constantine were Israelites, lol. “
–Where the heck did you get that from? Surely you don’t believe that? First of all, there was only a law forcing Christians not to convert to Judaism. Jews were definitely encouraged (it not so many nice ways) to convert, but they definitely weren’t forced to. It wouldn’t be until Theodosius that anything remotely like that would happen.
“As far as the veracity of the Christian persecutions, once again you do error not knowing the history. The Christians, Jews, and Germanic tribes were customarily tortured because they were negroes that refused to Romanize themselves http://www.livius.org/cg-...christianity/tacitus.html & http://a1204.g.akamai.net...ges/11040000/11040505.jpg http://www.bookfinder4u.c...etail/0819174696.html.”
–What’s your point. Oh wait, where the heck are you getting this all the Christians and Jews were black argument from? One picture? If I were to post all the pictures depicting white tribes from the time, we’d be here all day. Yes, there are black descendents, and black people did exist, but not even your links prove this.
“Let’s make a distinction between the “Christian church”, which is a slave “religion” taught to the negroes by the white man during slavery to make them docile, and the Word of God. I deal with the Bible, not the black church. The black church is not intellectually or biblically driven, it’s emotionally driven. It’s a place where negroes can compare suits and hats, speak jibberish, and jump up and down.”
–I’ll agree with you here. The black church is nothing to take seriously nowadays, as much as I don’t like admitting that (being black, myself).
‘As far as the assimilation of pagan holidays into the “Christian religion”, I couldn’t agree more, lol. http://a1204.g.akamai.net...mages/7680000/7687841.jpg. I’ve told many black Christians that Christmas and Easter are pagan but they don’t want to listen. Christ was born in the springtime near the Passover. (Luke 2:6-10) “
—Then if you agree, why do you refute my point? My whole point of mentioning why pagan holidays were assimilated into Christianity was to demonstrate how not everything associated with the religion is based on anything factual.
“2) The Greeks were not excellent scholars; they were good scholars and excellent thieves. They received their view of the universe from the Egyptians, Babylonians, and Persians (as Herodotus states). How could early Christians have gotten the notion of the pre-existence of the soul from the Greeks when the immutability of the soul and reincarnation were addressed in the scripture before Greece was a relevant power (Job 14:14,15, Ecc 1:9, 3:14,15, Matt 11:12-15, John 9:1-3).”
—Ahhh, I should have known you were going to try to bring this argument up. While it’s quite possible that the Greeks were influenced by these other cultures, that’s where it ends. To claim that every idea of theirs was stolen from another people is ridiculous. The Egyptians didn’t have recorded philosophy at the time, and the Library of Alexandria wasn’t even built during Arsitotles’ lifetime, so they’re out. In fact, the claim by the church that Greeks stole from the Egyptians was them, once again, trying to attach themselves to an older and more elaborate culture to give more credit to Christianity. Don’t display your own discrimination and rob Greeks of a history that rightfully belongs to them. (http://www.historyplace.com/pointsofview/not-out.htm).
Also, you scriptuires prove nothing of the immutability of the soul. Those passages are nothing but vague references to anything that could be considered physical. And the New Testament doesn’t even count at this point, because it didn’t exist. Why are you recycling arguments that were proven false years ago?
“As a matter of fact, Alexander the Greek told his soldiers not to touch Jerusalem after the Levites showed him Daniel the 8th chapter. “
–What does this have to do with anything?
“The early Christians did not need to “steal” from any other doctrine to “create” a God. Their God was the same God of the Hebrew Old Testament because THEY WERE ISRAELITES, lol. The “Gentiles” that Paul was teaching were scattered ISRAELITES, lol (too many scriptures to name). “
–So, every single gentile Paul converted was really a scatted Israelite? That’s a hefty claim to make without a shred of proof, Judah. And no, the bible doesn’t count, because what we’re arguing here is its merit, and that can only be established using historical sources outside of it. You can’t prove the bible with the bible.
Also, there were several factions of Christianity in the beginning, so it wasn’t just Paul. There were lots of gentiles to be accounted for. Another thing: I didn’t say they used this doctrine to create their god, rather to explain his nature. Do you think the foundation of Christianity was so clear-cut? No, there were forums of argument and debate all the time to explain the Nature of God, his relationship to Jesus, and validity and purpose of his death and resurrection and meaning of his message. And the Apologists would have had a hard time explaining all of these things without borrowing a few specific points from Aristotle and Plato, not to mention the Jews. Again, just because most early Christians were converted Jews doesn’t mean the torah converted right along with them, or that they were seen as Jews by the Romans. The Torah remained strictly Jewish and the Romans distinctly separated them (example: the Jews were, for a time, exempt from Roman pagan customes, whereas the Christians weren’t).
“The churches act like the God of the New and Old Testament are two different entities because they are not disciplined or intelligent enough to relate the two and they cannot comprehend the prophecies of the OT. Plus they grasp on to the “love” aspect in the NT and think that that means that they can do whatever they want. The scripture tells you what love is (I John 5:3)”
–Again, I don’t understand the point you are trying to make with this.
“3) Nope…the Torah was a part of the Christian doctrine from the very beginning (Matt 5:17, Luke 10:25,26) because the Christians were Israelites that believed that Christ was the Messiah prophesied about in the OT. You’re under the misconception that Paul just went to anybody to convert, and that is just not the case. He went to the Romanized Jews.”
–I responded to this above. The torah wasn’t a part of Christianity until the church fathers realized that they needed it to be to make their religion seem older, and thus give it “street cred”.
“Once again, Plato and Socrates taught from the scripture and there is evidence that they may have been negroid hebrews http://www.malaspina.org/gif/socrates.jpg
http://www.activemind.com...antis/images/plato.gif”
– Plato and Socrates did not teach from the scripture, nor were they black (and it’s going to take more than pic of a random busts to prove it). Socrates, for example, was (under his own admission) a pure blood Athenian, and the Athenians at the time were most fastidious about maintaining their purity. They were the only Greek city-state to not allow other Greeks citizenship and they were even tougher on their barbaroi (any non-greek). To purport that Socrates, a highly valued Athenian citizen, was allowed to be black and still hold his station as a citizen is impossible. It’s just how their society worked. Trust me, Plato and Socrates were too busy with their own ideas (And refuting the ideas of other rival philosophy schools) to go around teaching from scripture. And them being black is just more Afro-Centrist crap that tries to assert black pride into societies where it had no place. Would have been cool if they were black, but they weren’t.
“4) This is where Patti Labelle is probably right. You can’t represent the Most High and be in the entertainment industry. Look man, I’m not going to argue with you about the stance on homosexuality in the Bible. If you’re a homosexual then that’s you, but Lev 20:13 expressly uses the term “abomination” which means evil. Simple as that. The scripture tells you that the Lord gave the Israelites laws aginst homosexuality amongst many other things because the nations that inhabited Canaan were doing these abominations and the Egyptians did them (Lev 18:3,26-29 and Deut 18:9-12), not because of “procreation”, lol. Now you’re trying to put your own spin on the scripture. What Onan did was wicked in the eyes of the Lord because if your brother dies you are to take his wife in honor of your brother(Deut 25:5-7), not because of “procreation”. If that were the case she can get impregnated by any man who was an Israelite, lol.”
—Her getting impregnated doesn’t change the fact that he spilled his seed. Again, this is where the importance of knowing the history comes in. I am not twisting scripture. Hell, I’m not even referring to it. Again, you can’t prove the bible with the bible, Judah. You can quote all the scriptures you want, it doesn’t mean anything if what’s being argued is the books own validity. And the stance on Homosexuality isn’t “simple as that”, you have to know the social situation at the time those “scriptures” were written. Those laws, again, were to enforce cleanliness and establish the importance of procreation, that was the whole point of Leviticus. Why do you think they don’t mention women lying with women in those passages? Because seed isn’t being wasted in those acts, according to what they believed.
“5) I’ve seen many so-called “scholarly” History Channel specials on the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. None of them have said that “they know the reason why God destroyed the cities”, lol. Unless you’re God I don’t think you can give me a reason why God destroyed the cities, lol. You can give me your alternative opinion, but that’s about it. I do know that from satellite shots of the cities they were scorched by what appears to be nuclear fire. Even the white man associates the destruction of the cities with the homosexual practices notated in the scripture(i.e. “SODOMY”), hint hint. LMAO.”
–You contradict youself by claiming everything the white man does is ripped from black people…until it serves your own purposes. There have been arguments for years over what happened to Sodom, and none of it is based on a PBS special. There’s more proof that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their greed and their gold than there is proof that God destroyed them because they were all homosexuals. The term sodomy is based off of a grave misinterpretation of that whole incident. Again, you’re using arguments that were disproved years ago.
“7) This last point seems to be where you are the most confused. It’s probably my fault because I mis-worded my point. There were numerous negro factions in the Roman Empire during the Christian era (i.e. Carthaginians, Israelites, Christians, Germanic tribes, etc.) The Severand Dynasty was actually against Christianity and were great persecutors of them. You seem to be bent on when the Bible came into existence in its present incarnation, as if there were no written scriptures, lol. Archaeologists have found scriptures in Israel dating to the 6th century b.c. Whites had no say or influence on the Bible or its format until the Renaissance because during the “Dark Ages” blacks ruled Europe and forced the word on the pagan caucasian Europeans. We were the knights, kings, and queens while they were the serfs.”
—-Point me exactly to where you get your proof that all of these tribes were black. You even go as far as to say the Germanic tribes were black? Judah, put down the Afro-centrist crap and pick up something with actual sources to back their claims. The bible is composed of writings separated by hundreds of years, The meetings of hundreds of early bishops to vote on what would be put in the bible had to wade through tons of different writings by many people who all had different points to make. Sure, you don’t believe that every single person leading up to the Renaissance who touched the bible was black. Now that’s black pride to the point of stupidity. Constantine wasn’t black, and he’s responsible for a lot of what’s considered canon scripture and idea. Augustine wasn’t black, and his ideas are what prevailed in the West. Neither were the first monks black. Look up the meeting in Nicea. I can go on and on listing people who had a direct hand in our scripture and religious process who WASN’T black.
“I’ll end this by saying that I can respect the fact that at least you’re not simple. Say Uncle, lol. “:
–Ha, you’re going to have to do better than that.

Judah

Don’t think you’re getting out of this that easily. I reply to your post was so long they wouldn’t let me post it here, so I sent it to you via private message.

A man having sex with another man is wrong. Being hateful toward another person for decisions THEY make in THEIR lives is wrong. I dont agree with homosexuality but I feel like hating people is ten times worse. If I were an entertainer I would air out my views on homosexuality, politics, homelessness, and any other thing that I might be asked about. Patti Labelle has years of experence in the business and was probally just speaking from a entertainers point of view. DL brothers are out there but so are other DL races why black people are always targeted as “OOOOh watch out for these kind of niggers” every damn time?

Believe it or not, men were supposed to be with men and women were suppose to be with women. This is how it was intended. Men relating to other men and women to other women was very common. It’s obvious that men and women can’t get the relationship thing to work because we both want different things. That is why men bonded with each other in a conventional way. And women did also. Sexually men and women got together for reproductive services. No marriage, no relationships. We were supposed to work equally and independently for a more productive society. Men lived with men and enjoyed the company of men. And women lived with each other and enjoyed the company of the same sex. It was proved that both sexes related to the same gender without any problems. The Book of Daani explains this in more detail.

T-Rider you smoking crack or something? You need to stop reading all that crap man and use your common sense!!! Men are not suppose to have sexual relations with men!

Hey Mark,I’m curious, how are you going to talk all religious and say what the bible says is wrong, and start your statement with “what the fuck”?

Keysha (don’t care if I mispelled her name) a soul singer???? wtf???? Say what you want, but Christina can sing and she has covered r&b…she even did a remake of Donny Hathaway’s This Song is for You…can Cole touch that? Hell no! I can’t stand Patti Labelle all she does is screams…just awful! She played the hell out of Dwayne Wane’s mom on A Different World…”chipmunk”…lol!

Homosexuality in the Black Church

Several Posters commented on the presence of DL (down Low) individual in the Black church, who “claim” to be one way (“spiritual”) when in essence they are another way ( gay”).

For as long as I can remember, Gays have been involved in the church.

When I was a child I recalled that our Minister of Music was Gay, The Chairman of the Usher board was gay, and Our Chef cook in the Kitchen was gay.

The church that I attended as a child was a very prominent church, and these individuals sexual proclivities were very discreet, so we didn’t make a big deal about it
***The “don’t ask, don’t tell”” Philosophy was in place when I was growing up as a child.

That church that I attended as a child had about 1,500 people in it.
3 out of 1,500 people in the church were gay.
I can live that statistic. (1.6 %)…..

Nowadays, I attend a very popular Mega church.
We have a membership of over 18,000 people.

I have no ideal of who is gay in my congregation, but if I had to guess, I would say that a couple of our choir members are….

My Point is that Gays have and will always be involved in the church.
And Why ??? – Because Gays are WELCOMED in the Black church!!

All Sinners are Welcome in Church..That’s where they are SUPPOSE to be !

The Church is a Hospital for hurting people. There are all types of people in my church.
Gays, Pedophiles, Pimps, Prostitutes, Drug Dealers, a Lot of Strippers, Man we got some of everything/everybody in our church.

My Pastor philosophy is “It’s our Job to catch the Fish…It’s God’s Job to clean the fish”

We ask al types of people to come to our church when we are out handing out tract and witnessing. No Strings attach.
When they get there we feed them, give them a bible, send them over to our clothing store, and give them a new outfit to wear to church on Sunday. If they need a job we put them to work at our Car wash, Cleaners, or in our restaurant.

They usually come to church for a LONG time before they can get delivered from whatever vice they were addicted to.

They then come down the aisle with tears welling from their eyes. Convicted.
And in position to be saved & healed.

A lot of times these same individual “back slide” and we have to go and pull them out of the crack den or strip club, and we then have to start the process all over again.
But, that is our jobs. To help our Brother & sisters in the community get their lives back on track.

The Church will ALWAYS be a place for the Gay Community to come.
Gays (or anyone for that matter) need to work out their “Soul’s Salvation”.
If one has been practicing Homosexuality for 20 years, I would not expect him or her to be converted in one day. They need time to be around straight people, go to counseling, and get prayer. They also need to seek healing & deliverance from Christ.

That’s all I have to say.

Peace.

If you need to laugh, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cetkezoUlt4

It’s VERY funny !!!

Peace

Bill–this is why gay people are unhappy, and this is why DL still exists in your welcoming church.

Black churches don’t let gay people just be, and come to their church. No, if a known gay person goes to a black church, everyone has their eye on them, with the mission of converting them, of cleansing them of their demons. Everyone’s whispering about them, gossiping about them. Heck, some of the congregation are even cursing about them. Pastors are spewing hateful messages about them. Gay people just want to worship as we are. We’re not strippers, drug addicts, or prosititutes. Contrary to popular belief, many of us live successful, healthy lives. Many of us are doctors, lawyers, and CEOs (and since most of us don’t have to worry about families, we also tend to have LOTS of money) And that’s why it hurts, because everyone in the black church still looks at homosexuality as a choice, as something you can change. As a sickness, so no matter how good we are, we’re nothing but dirt in the eyes of the black church.

This leads to TWO reasons why the DL is so present in the church (and no, Bill, I’m willing to wager that there were more than three gay men in that church, the DL is the DL for a reason). Reason one: you have your men who fall into that belief that homosexuality is evil and dirty and wrong, and feel that the best way to go about it is deny who they are and throw themselves into the church in an effort to “change”. These men may even get married at some point, maybe even become an usher of their own. But then the urges start. Why? because gay is what they are whether they like it or not, and that’s when you start hearing stories about how that one usher was caught blowing one of the choir boys. I know so many guys (a lot of my black gay friends) who have been spiritual all their life, and still think the answer to their homosexuality is the bible, not realizing that if it was, they wouldn’t have been gay in the first place. Hell, I was raised in a church myself (actually LIVED in one for three years of my life).

Then you have the second group, who think the church is a good cover, and a great place to pick up men who belong to the first group.

@ #212, Hey Asbury, to say F#@* all church people or “believers” is harsh. I am a devout Christian who is uncompromising in MY faith but at the same time I don’t sit in the seat of judgment on anyone. I don’t fit the concept that you may have of other Christians you have encountered or dispute with on this blog. We are all entitled to our opinions but to make such a generalization about “ALL Christians” is a as biased as making a generalization about all gays. I understand ALL (especially redeemed Christians) have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and that is why I feel that everyone deserves an opportunity to come to know God at whatever pace he allows them to. I try to stay real and not hold it against anyone who is not Christian because I will always remember that before I was saved, (and sometimes after too) I committed sins that make me not worthy of even saying the name of Jesus. I know that to everything there is a season (redemption of lost souls included) and I also know that one day every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD! I also know that just like I got my revelation not everyone gets theirs at the same time. I hope the length of this is not confrontational and I also hope that this comment does not sound too confrontational. I normally fully agree with your posts but the part about cussin us Christians, I took offense. Please don’t take this reply negatively because that is not the manner that I have written it in by far. I am solely defending the misconception alot of people have about Christians.

On the subject, cosign Caff, Heather Headley, Vivian Green, Jill Scott and India.Arie also got the soul thing on lock.

@ Bill.

This is what I do not understand about the Church: some people that attend church, and have taken a few bible classes, now believe that they have thoroughly figured out the Bible and therefore have the right to “SAVE” people from their sins[and yet do not admit, or do nothing in regards to theirs]. Are you saying, that the gay people that go to your church are “cleansed” and “restored” and to what? To unhappily married people, who maybe let out their frustrations, of not being able to be themselves, and live happily, on their wives and children? What if someone forced you to like men Bill? Would you really do it, or would you put up a front and pretend to, so that you don’t have 3,000 people gossiping, and saying hateful things about you? Also, I find your statistics hard to believe. Maybe the gay people in your church have a hard time coming out for the fear of being ridiculed, scorned, and having people feel the need to “save” them. Funny thing is most people come to church seeking acceptance, and salvation from the LORD, not from the congregation.

“If one has been practicing Homosexuality for 20 years, I would not expect him or her to be converted in one day.”

Wow. I do not think you understand what homosexuality is. Homosexuality is not a religion that you practice. It is what you are. How can people help who they are attracted to? Why are you making it your mission to change gay people? They are not asking you for that “favor”, and seriously, they would probably appreciate it if people like you, who are set on saving the world, would let them be.

its not alot of artist that can sing. she s teeling the truth. and whoever sed she shouldnt talk or whatever, she already acheived fame. its about 7 artists out now worth while.

UMMMMM who is Mandisa?

oh yeah sidebar.. Xtina has a song on one of her albums witb Alicia Keys (I belive its the stripped album) Its called impossible….That song is that s*&^…..That song has a lota soul

For those of you who are interested in carrying on a convo about homoesexuality..hip-hop and our culture as black folk you can continue that on another post..may i suggest hotcakeandicecream.blogspot.com, No shade to the concreteloop.

Im tired of logging into this site and reading comments from e-homophobes who feel free to type nonesense about other people’s lives because they are miles away sitting uncomfortably at their keyboard.

The Bible does not..I repeat does not condemn homosexuality, and those of you who are swearing that you know it does need to stop. Henceforth why must I and the other LGBT users have to endure the continual attacks from the homophobes?

In answer to the above posts, Mandissa made career-stupid comments about Gay people, Mandissa is (as I’ve heard and read elsewhere) a large black singing bitch- gay people love that (as we love patti)- so why would this large black singing bitch make comments with an undertone of unnaceptance toward the her largest supporting group? Because bible thumpers everywhere, like yourselves will applaud her and she will sleep better at night thinkin that she did something for Jesus.

C’mon ya’ll really need to stop the hate. And for those of you who are fuming on the other end of my DSL line, RELAX BITCH.

WOW! Y’all kicked it on this topic all weekend!

asbury started a lot of this mess with her bible quotes and love for queers. She thinks immorality is different for gays, DLs, Bi and lesbos! (See her post #124: GAY, BI_SEXUAL or DL.) You keep exposing yourself!

bill and judah fought the good fight trying to shed light on some dark places…folks! She tries to deny her passion for gay causes, but the lines between her words don’t lie like her attempts to cover the truth!

mizzlizz, you need to put up or shut-up! You talk out of both sides of your mouth! Take a side or move on! Patti spoke her beliefs, so bible scholars have a right to speak theirs.

pittbboi, you can sit there and argue all you want, but bill and judah have given you the truth and you keep coming back with lame azz excuses, when you know their right…just like Mandiesel was right. She’s about the truth, so she doesn’t give a damn about personal gains. I hope you and others haven’t tested positive.

The world must never accept homosexuality, and the saints must always speak out against its acceptance! To bill and judah and others who have spoken with power, I say, keep sending them back to the closets where they belong…or better yet, send them to the alter.

And, to all you fools who say that society is at fault for the spread of AIDS because we don’t accept DL brothers…I say, that’s the most wicked thought of the day!

I know some of you DL brothers on this post have already tested positive. May God have mercy on your soul, but you need to sound the warning and not look for acceptance. Let others know that you’re life is getting cut short because of a choice you made and not because God made you that way! Tell the truth! Don’t just die and hide the truth like Flo-jo, Gary and Luther! They knew those steroids and lifestyles destroyed their lives!

I had to take it there so you’d understand why Mandiesel stood her ground! Ain’t nobody playing with y’all! Don’t get caught up in Patti’s mess!

Thanks Meatloaf.

I was feeling a little alone out here by myself, defending the good faith.

It good to know that I can depend on Brother like Judah & Meatloaf to take a stand for Manhood.

Peace.

bill, now you know how Jesus, Moses and Noah felt when they stood on the promise! hehe! Whew! Imagine the crowd yelling, “crucify Him” or the people laughing the strange boat that would become the ark for mankind!

Don’t look back and count it all joy when the enemy tries to shake your faith! I have no doubt in your resolve! And, as you get older in life you’ll only get stronger!

I really believe that lives will be changed by what you have written. So, stay with the truth. What Patti and others really want is to be accepted as equal like a minorities or obesse person. Minorities can’t change (except Michael Jackson, hehe!) and obesse people do all they can to change. But, when it comes to the sexual tendencies of gays, they want to continue as they are, with everyone’s acceptance. Well, Ms. Jay Alexander, I’m sorry, you need to get a life! Society doesn’t accept drunks, perverts and crackheads, so why should we accept two men or two women “loving” on each others genitals.

bill, don’t ever think you’re alone, because if God be for you, He’s more than the world against you!

Thank-you sir.
I appreciate that.

Question : Where are all the REAL MEN At ??
on CL ???
**Seems like a bunch of double minded sissy’s are on this site.

And why would a Straight Woman want to see Black Man that is doublesided on his stance & views..

You think I’m going to “Punk Out” cause you don’t agree with me…nah….I’m not the one
Don’t mistake my Kindness for Weakness…I’m from Newark..I’ll cut you !

lol…Just kidding…

What really confused me this weekend was how WOMEN don’t defend the old fashion notion of Husand + Wife = children….

It seems like now days, Everything goes…
Well..As we say in church “The devil is a Liar”…

Peace,
My Brother
Thanks for the affirmation(s)

pittbboi, you can sit there and argue all you want, but bill and judah have given you the truth and you keep coming back with lame azz excuses, when you know their right…just like Mandiesel was right. She’s about the truth, so she doesn’t give a damn about personal gains. I hope you and others haven’t tested positive.

–Heh, I have yet to see anyone, including yourself Meatloaf, give me a reason for why their right other than “I think my bible says so!” or “This is what my pastor told me”. Meatloaf, you should know by now that you need to come a little more correct then that, probably the reason why nobody (but Bill, it seems) takes you seriously. You can repeat all the religious idiums you want until you’re blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is that none of you, (not even Judah), have backed it up with anything factual. And, again, the bible doesn’t cut it in this case.

bill,

Most brothers just ignor it, because it means more pussy for them! hehe! Fortunately, there are a few counselors on CL like you and judah whose proiorties include the truth as well as the other things in life. Within the ranks of counselors, there is strength!

Most of the women who devalue the “real” family are lonely, leftout, desperate women themselves. Misery loves company. A starving snake will eat its own tail! hehe!

You hit on the key point when you asked, “why would a Straight Woman want to see Black Man that is doublesided on his stance & views?” Therein lies the message written between the lines and it amazes me just as much as, a woman who knows that the her man is gay, but she keeps on sleeping with him until she’s sick as hell too! And believe me, nearly all of them know when he’s gay! That’s what I keep trying to explain to asbury! She’s a big advocate for gay men! Why?

I guess its true, you will know the tree by the fruit it bares!

Well, I am far from gay, am a Christian woman and I do believe in God, but MY God tells me to love others as they are and their choices are choices that they will reconcile with their God. AIDS is not a gay man’s disease, it’s a human disease. A disease more than likely that was botched in a governmental lab somewhere to divide the masses. I am a woman who would much rather be aware of a man’s stance gay, straight, bi or otherwise, not because I agree or disagree, but because like with anyone else, I think it is a shame for a person to have to live a lie. I have seen what the “outing” of a gay person in church can do and we “loving Christians” can be awfully judgmental. Fact is, you can preach all you want to, but the same as I wasn’t able to select being heterosexual, black a woman or anything that else, being gay is not a fad or a choice. Do you really think people would CHOOSE to be something that would subject them to the pain that people like you inflict? While I am not a historian, it seems that Jesus wasn’t very well liked for the things He said, the things that people didn’t understand and for his differences - otherwise, why was he crucified? Anyway, all this to say, call me or asbury or anyone else who does not share your view gay, lesbian, lonely, left out or whatever you want. That really does not change the fact that it is really evident that even though your messages may have some truth to them, you erode the pure intent by making generalizations about others with differing opinions or the amount of “pussy” a man is or is not getting…Now that wasn’t very Christianly of you!! Shame shame!
Peace
P.S. Pittboi, regardless of what God you serve, continue to love those who are you enemies or who cannot understand. You are a beautiful human being and regardless of my opinions about certain things, I like your posts…

First, let me say that I m A GAY Christian Black MAN. Oxymoron. No. Why? Because I chose to accept my sexuality, NOT fool some woman into beleving that I am attracted to her or any other sister for that matter. I have known..always known that my attraction was to men. I am not on the DL nor am i in the closet. My allegiance is to Jesus Christ not the American flag the African American Flag or the Gay Flag.
The ‘Men’ presumably heterosexual who got on this post and talked about ’standing for manhood’ as they percieve it are wrong. And if my isters are buying into that they are buying into lies. Men are not males who sleep with women, nor are they over-masculine hip-hop hype. What do I mean by that? If your perception of a man is a thug, ladies then you are in for a long lonely road of empty relationships -the reason why many of you are
in destitute and destructive relationships today. Men, even better black men are bigger then that and to put ourselves into boxes like that is selling ourselves cheap. Ladies I want you to recognize the difference between a man and the masculinty a man is selling you.
the confusion in this DL nonesense is that many women are now looking for effeminity with a fine toothed comb, raking their brother over the coals to try and drag them out of an imaginary closet. Yes some of the men you see everyday and assume to be heterosexual are gay,but did they trick you by being the naturally masculine men they grew up to be? No of course not. And it is not your fault that you are attracted to an appealling male.
A Man on the other hand would not involve himself in a relationship with you that he knows is a deception. Real Men don’t do that. Children Lie. Men uphold truth.
There are men on the DL because other brothers cannot find it in their hearts to love them the way Christ told them to. Many times women befriend gay men in friendship because they dont feel threatened by their prescence. A sidenote- If your running to the altar for protection from your own identity perhaps you should examine why your running.
There are all types of families. This is 2006 husband + wife = children when out the door when heterosexuals started fornacating and producing children out of wedlock. The Black family is bigger then a patriarchy. Get Into It.
It seems very funny to me how one of the posters described the men who are frequenting this site as sissies. The last I checked gossip is an effeminate trait and this is a gossip column, so if your one of the men frequenting the site dont you think of yourself as engaging in sissie behavior?
Last, I hate when Christians use the Bible to justify things they are not comfortable with for the moment. very man will give an account for what he has done in his life and be judged accordingly. Now, my Bible says, “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ” and the law of the Spirit that brought life in Christ Jesus has set me “free from the Laws of Sin and Death.”
If we are using the Bible as a basis for homosexuality being wrong then why does my Bible say that I am free from Sin.
Is that an oxymoron? Explain. If you are sooo much taking a stand against homosexuality, then why are you wearing the clothes on your back and feet that homosexuals designed? Why do you visit the same sites as homosexuals?

A quick response to any comments about HIV infections…More women are infected by 100% heterosexual men and intra-vaneous drug use then by bisexual men or MSMs. That comes from the Center for Disease Control. In that respect, Sisters stop concerning yourself with wether or not your man is on the DL and make sure he stays with condoms in his pocket. (or BYOC)

ok Gizmo

So..You’re saying that EVERY man is gay, we just don’t know it…

And you are also saying that any man that visits a gossip website Like CL is Gay…

I just need to be clear, if that’s what your saying..

Man, (Brother) why would you disrespt me like that ??

If I had the time, I would explain a few things to you.

But….I’m not going to waste my time arguing with you.
I’m above that

Peace Brother..I ain’t fooling with you.

I hope that the people who hate the bible so much, WHO WERE NEVER EVEN DIRECTLY ADDRESSED, can find some satisfaction in this life, lol. In my opinion Mandisa’s reaction shows you that you will have to compromise your beliefs or you’ll be accosted by the “open-minded people” like the Muslims are.

Now let me finish off my man PittBoi because I can see by your last post, #261, that you’re about through. You’re just too proud to admit it:

1) As far as where I get all the Christians and Jews being black from is very simple, they were, lol. You can read it for yourself from a Roman historian named Tacitus (a white man, so you will respect his account). He said that the Jews were “suspected” by the Romans to be descended from an “Ethiopian” tribe. Ethiopian, not meaning from the country, because the Greeks and Romans identified all blacks south of the Sahara as “ethiops”, meaning burnt-faced. There are a variety of “historical” books as well, http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books. Etc.,Etc…too many to name.
Even though you don’t respect the Bible, there is proof in there as well (Gen 2:16-19, 4:6,7, Num 12:9, Job 30:30, Lam 5:10, Dan 7:9, Acts 13:1, 21:37-39, Rev 1:14,15, etc.) The people known today as Jews and who call themselves Jews are of Turkish-Khazarian origin, not the people of the Bible known as Israelites. http://search.barnesandno...ISBN=0394402847&pdf=y. That’s why there is so much turmoil in that land and will continue to be, because they’re claiming a history and nationality that’s not there’s(Zech 12:3). In the Bible, the people who call themselves caucasians are known as edomites. Where do I get that all the early Christians were Israelites…the Bible, lol (James 1:1, Rom 9:1-4, Acts 11:26, 21:17-24, 26:6,7, Heb 8:8-13) Once again, you don’t understand the OT (probably the fault of your church) so you miss out on some of the important aspects of the NT. Many books tell you that Rome was overrun by “barbarians”, meaning negroes, (also known as Germanic tribes and Israelites) in the latter stages of the empire. Here’s a book, written by your favorite (the white man) from the latter 19th century that tells you that the germanic tribes were black http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books. I’ve listed many more for you at the bottom of my retort. The Germanic tribes were just Israelites that had escaped the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities and had gone into other doctrines.

2)In regard to the Greeks, the reason why I say that they were wicked is because the scripture tells you they were. They raped the women and the children, forced the people into slavery, and made the men fight naked in the gymnasiums. The Greeks did not rise of their own power, the Lord rose them up because it was their time to rule. That is why I mentioned Dan 8:5-22. They showed Alexander that scripture, he acknowledged them as God’s chosen people, and the Greeks spared the land while he was alive. In regards to the scriptures on reincarnation, there is nothing “vague” about them: Job asks the Most High, in the King James Version, if he will live again if he dies and he gives a self-affirmation. Christ comes out and tells you that John the Baptist is Elijah reincarnated as prophesied in Malachi 4:5,6.

3) You reiterating that the Torah wasn’t a part of Christianity doesn’t make you correct. The scriptures are very clear that the law, which is the Torah is still in effect(Matt 5:17, Acts 15:19-21, Rom 3:31, 6:15, 7:1-14, II Cor 3:12-18, etc.). So then what are you saying, that those scriptures were added in after the fact, lol. Then you’re saying that Christ didn’t believe in the law. Be careful, lol.

4) Whether or not Plato and Socrates believed in the Torah are inconsequential to me because I do believe. My credence in this is based on an account by a 2nd century B.C. Hebrew historian named Aristobulous. The busts are also very obvious to the point where I’m sure that I’m not the first source you’ve heard for Socrates being black. I’m not an Afro-centrist, the black people here in America are different from the Africans and the Africans know this. That’s why they collaborated with the Arabs and caucasians to sell us into slavery. They call us “katta” which means “cotton-picker”. The white man is reknowned for whitewashing history ever since the renaissance. There’s a reason why so many negro statues have their noses chopped off while the Greek and Roman statues are perfectly intact. Many statues of black Roman emperors had their heads sawed off and a white head plastered on in its place, namely Septimius Severus. In regards to the Israelites being the “gentiles”, there are two types: 1)physical gentiles a.k.a. “heathen” 2)spritual gentiles who were Israelites that had been scattered through migrations, wars, and captivities and had taken on the customs of the heathen nations (Deut 30:1-8, 32:26, Psa 106:35,36, Ezek 22:15, John 7:33-35, I Cor 10:1-5, etc.). You’re confusing the initial movement of Christ’s followers which was predicated off of the fulfillment of the OT prophecies of putting the Israelites back in power through the Messiah (Acts 1:6,7) with the later doctrines that Peter prophesied would spring up (II Pet 2:1-3).

5)Sure you can prove the Bible with the Bible because the Bible is like the human brain, it’s only used to 5% of its capacity (II Tim 3:16, I Thes 5:21). What separates the Bible from all other books is the prophecy. No other book has it, and if it does, they took it from the Bible. You just don’t believe in it. I’m very aware of the “social situation” at the time of the Levitical law; the other nations were wicked and homosexuality, incest, pedophilia, and child sacrifice were rampant. That’s why the Lord gave us the laws, to civilize us. The reason why Lev 20:13 doesn’t say womankind is because it doesn’t have to. The term “mankind” encompasses the man, woman, and child. Paul expounds on that in Rom 1:25-32 ( a scripture that you’re very aware of I’m sure).

6) Sodomy a “grave misinterpretation”, lmao. Alright brother: Matlock, Johnnie Cochran, and Columbo couldn’t prove that one. Have you ever thought that these anti-Bible books that you read may have their own agenda? That the authors may be on some entity’s payroll? Do you know how many archaeological findings were predicated off of the accounts written of in the Scriptures. I would go into it by that would be a debate of its own, lol. When the word “know” or “knew” occurs in the scripture it is often referring to sexual intercourse (Gen 4:1,17,24), so when you read Gen 19:1-8 (the story of Sodom & Gomorrah) you can figure it out yourself. lol.

7) “No Afrocentrist crap”, lol. Where did I get the info about the Germanic tribes being negroes? Good question, here you go….all the “sources” you could want:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...2-2955147-8546568?ie=UTF8
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...2-2955147-8546568?ie=UTF8
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books
Let’s get a couple of things straight (no pun intended): Constantine was a negro, he was one of the emperors who had his damn statue head chopped off http://www.millennia.demon.co.uk/ravens/lra.jpg http://www.fhw.gr/chronos/08/images/o/o3p1.jpg
http://www.insecula.com/u...e/photo_ME0000081387.html
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...dp_pt/102-2955147-8546568. Notice in the last picture, he and his entire court have afros and beards, lol. During the Roman and Byzantine Empires, sometimes negroes would straigten their hair. As far as the monks and the Council of Nicea, you have to do more thorough research: many of the Russian and Byzantine Icons and frescoes were altered. Many of the coins are more reliable, even though they’ve been adulterated to a certain degree as well. I’m surprised that you would say that St. Augustine wasn’t black when even the white man tells you that he was, lol. That was on the History Channel the other night in a special on Carthage. You know how many great people in history that we are taught were caucasian that were really negroes; you’d probably catch a damn seizure as much as you love your caucasoid side, lol. I really don’t think that there’s anything else that you can say or do other than acknowledge how much blacks have been lied to in our history. That’s it on that.

This why the Lord said not to interracially marry (Deut 7:3, Neh 13:23-27); it leads to dual emotions. Keep in mind that you are not debating me, you’re debating against the veracity of the Word of God. You can’t win. You can’t worship the Lord on your terms, you gotta worship him on his terms (Matt7:13). Alot of the points that I brang out that you did not understand were because you don’t have faith and you don’t put the same energy into understanding the Bible that you put into this society’s drastically skewed version of history and philosophy. Brother, I’ma end this by saying that you will have to learn to qualify your intelligence with faith in the scripture because if you cannot do that, and the Most High’s word offends you….then why the hell do you want to go to church.

Nah……On SECOND thought, I’m going have to speak to you
Man to …….. Whatever the hell you are

Listen, Son : You’ve crossed the Line.

We can have an intelligent conversation, and we can agree to disagree.

But you not going come on HERE and tell people That I’m NOT a Man, a heterosexual MAN who only has sex with woman !!!

Negro, Have you lost your damm Mind ???.

I’m trying to keep my composure, and keep in mind that I’m Saved,
But I really feel like letting loose every curse word I know.

You damm gays, done lost your freaking minds !!!

What The F*&^K is wrong with you boy ???

Pitbull is cool..You can have a conversation with him

But son, You just done said some real disrespectful things there.

I swear I would cut you A#$@ if I could…..
Nah.You probably would like the S&%^

I’ll pray about my temper later….
And I ain’t saying Peace today, cause I’m pissed !!!!

You Punk ass Bitch.
I ‘ll cut you faggot Throat !!!

calm down Bill, LMAO….

^^^WTF? What happened up in here? Somebody hold him back!!

pittbboi, you sound like you’re in pain deep and you really need help! Get out while your young and able, man! One day, you’ll thank bill and judah for taking the time to tell you like it is! Real men reaching out to a fallen brother!

How did you get this way? I would ask you the same question if you were hooked on crack or horse! What would you do if your brother or sister asked you to accept their drug addiction? There is never a happy ending to gays lifestyle! Get help! Listen to the people who are trying to steer you right! Don’t get hung up on the debates. Save yourself!

Man, I can’t believe this post has turned into this!! Interesting reading though.

@GG Boo said:

“being gay is not a fad or a choice”

—————————————–

That’s your opinion! You can’t prove what you say! Where’s the proof?

And GG Boo, how did the church know that the “outed” man was gay? Did he advertise?

You also asked: “Do you really think people would CHOOSE to be something that would subject them to the pain that people like you inflict?”

Yes, when they ARE living a lie! Gay people come up with some of the wildest reasons you can imagine to gain acceptance. So, its not so much that they’re subjecting themselves to the pain, as it is trying to unravel the paradox they live in. Imagine this, some of the gays that post on CL are sitting in wheelchairs beside their death beds! Now, are you more concerned about their right to chose or would you rather tell some healthy brother to beware?

Don’t think for one minute that bill, judah and I don’t love God’s people! Its the actions and behaviors that we detest! Even though, right now, I’m not so sure if bill care alot for Gizmo! hehe! Not every Christian turns the other cheek the same way! Sometimes a Peter will turn just enough to pull his sword and chop of an ear! hehe! Have mercy bill!

Now, I used the word Pussy and it offended you! I won’t say Pussy again if I think you’re reading. When I said Pussy, I had no idea you were in the conversation between us men. I was just four brothers discussing the reason why some men don’t speak out! I know the word Pussy can be offensive and a better choice of words would be vigina or the popular CL word which is choochie! I happen to think that Pussy is a beautiful thing! Matter of fact, I love Pussy! So, I will check any future blogs to make sure you’re not posting, before I use the word Pussy!

P.S. Please don’t let my use of the word “Pussy” detract from the truth about these poor gay men!

GG Boo

OMT: How do you feel about the word, “Dick?”

2 hours later…

Faggot ass Pillow Biting Dick Sucking Bitch
I hate that faggot ass Gizmo.

Son, I from Clinton Avenue in Newark !!

I will put a Hot one in your forehead, while I’m looking at you, then I’ll show up @ your funeral with your Blood on my shirt.

Punk ass bitches make me sick.
Damm, I wished I could find your faggot ass

fags are something else, man….

That faggot done made me sin

Now I got to ask the Lord to forgive me for cursing this sissy ass punk out.

Damm, see what fucking with these crazy ass niggers will get do.Get you into trouble.

Forgive me Lord !!!

bill,

Sin comes from within! No one can make you sin! Sin is non-transferable! Own up to your temper, bill! Don’t use the wrong to prove that your right!

FYI, threats are inappropriate and subject to law enforcement is some jurishdictions. Never say what you will do to someone unless its clearly in fun!

Now, you see pittbboi, GG Boo and Gizmo, I will tell bill or judah when they are wrong just like I tried to tell you! GG Boo told me I was wrong for saying a certain word and I try to only say it now when she’s not around!

Damn bill, if words over the internet is all it took for you to sin, lose your religion and all that, I’d hate to see what would happen to you if you went to a tittie bar. Things that make you go hmmmmmm….

@ Meatloaf - Everything you have said is your opinion as well and that’s respected. If it isn’t prove to me that being gay IS a choice…
And as far as you offending me, nah sorry buddy - you don’t have that type of control no matter how long your posts or how sarcastic you try to be. Did I say that the word “pussy” offended me? You’re so interested in trying to make a point that you didn’t read what I wrote. And how do you figure that only you men were talking and you’re on the Internet? Wow. That is not cute - I,unlike you, read the posts so it doesn’t matter when you post it, I’m still going to see it. Last I checked this is a free country and you can type anything you want to. And if that last little question was to supposed to suggest something, I’m not going to lower myself to your level my “Christian” friend…

You didn’t lose anything other than your temper Bill, don’t worry about it brother. The prophets were known to curse and carry on at the people when they got heated (Isa 6:5-8, II Cor 11:6). Don’t let these people make you feel like you have to be perfect to represent for the Most High. That’s a ploy that negroes use to make another negro feel like he or she shouldn’t aspire to be better than they are. It ain’t that serious….but damn Bill, “a hot one in your head and come to the funeral with your blood on my shirt….”. SH*T, LMAO….

Some of you guys can “preach” all you want, but I still get turn on at the thought of two men being together(sexually)and I am a female with a boyfriend and I have a child. Does that make me on the DL? :p For real though, a lot of people would be shocked by how many men that are married, have a gf, or have kids that are “sneaky” I have been friends with guys that are gay(don’t like using the word)and know other people who knows someone that is and I can’t speak for all of them but they do give names of other “straight” guys they have been with. Sorry if it appears that I am off topic.

@285, Gizmo…your run in with Bill made me call attention to your post. I’m gonna get to the point because that was ridiculous and you dun got Bill all worked up. You’re right, men do tell the truth….the truth is the word (John 17:17). The word says that homosexuality is an abomination. You can’t get around it wit’ no damn slick talk either, lol. I could see you confounding your fellow parishioners with that Rom 8th chapter. The scripture doesn’t say that you’re free from sin. You’re free from the penalty of the sin because when you read on Paul explains that Christ gave us the chance to repent through his death. Prior to Christ your ass would been neck deep in stones, lol. Now you have the opportunity to acknowledge your transgressions as we all must, simple as that. If not, it’s a wrizzap (I Cor 6:9,10).

1) “As far as where I get all the Christians and Jews being black from is very simple, they were, lol. You can read it for yourself from a Roman historian named Tacitus (a white man, so you will respect his account). He said that the Jews were “suspected” by the Romans to be descended from an “Ethiopian” tribe. Ethiopian, not meaning from the country, because the Greeks and Romans identified all blacks south of the Sahara as “ethiops”, meaning burnt-faced. There are a variety of “historical” books as well, http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books. Etc.,Etc…too many to name.
Even though you don’t respect the Bible, there is proof in there as well (Gen 2:16-19, 4:6,7, Num 12:9, Job 30:30, Lam 5:10, Dan 7:9, Acts 13:1, 21:37-39, Rev 1:14,15, etc.) The people known today as Jews and who call themselves Jews are of Turkish-Khazarian origin, not the people of the Bible known as Israelites. http://search.barnesandno...ISBN=0394402847&pdf=y. That’s why there is so much turmoil in that land and will continue to be, because they’re claiming a history and nationality that’s not there’s(Zech 12:3). In the Bible, the people who call themselves caucasians are known as edomites. Where do I get that all the early Christians were Israelites…the Bible, lol (James 1:1, Rom 9:1-4, Acts 11:26, 21:17-24, 26:6,7, Heb 8:8-13) Once again, you don’t understand the OT (probably the fault of your church) so you miss out on some of the important aspects of the NT. Many books tell you that Rome was overrun by “barbarians”, meaning negroes, (also known as Germanic tribes and Israelites) in the latter stages of the empire. Here’s a book, written by your favorite (the white man) from the latter 19th century that tells you that the germanic tribes were black http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books. I’ve listed many more for you at the bottom of my retort. The Germanic tribes were just Israelites that had escaped the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities and had gone into other doctrines.”

–First—Judah, lets get some of your mess straight here. My arguing this topic with you is by no means an indication of my
“brainwashing” or my “inherent love of the white man”, so you can get that into your head now. You continuous racial jabs do nothing but reflect your own immaturity and bias, not a shred of truth. You say my sources are twisted for the simple fact that they come from the “white man,” while yours are apparently nothing but Beacons of Divine Truth because they place black people at the highest level of importance. Judah, this makes you no better than how bad you’re claiming me to be. Do not, Judah, for one second, confuse my desire for the truth with hatred of my race. That would be the biggest display of your ignorance. I’m enjoying this debate with you, but if there is one thing I’m going to have to politely ask you to stop doing is commenting on my own personal feeling about my race—which you know nothing about. I am very proud of being black and the accomplishments of my people; I just don’t let said pride blind me to all the other races around me. Now, moving on (because if you think I’m about through, you’re sadly mistaken)…another thing: fix your “sources”. A lot of them are broken. lol

I know who the Khazarian are, no need to explain them. Anyway, there’s genetic indications that modern Jewish ancestry hails from a lot of different cultural backgrounds, not just Turkish-Khazarian, so you trying to say they have no claim to the original Jewish tribes is, in an attempt to phrase it nicely, inaccurate—downright false at best. There are many other groups beside the Khazarians who immigrated and adopted other religions over time, but nobody is claiming those groups went on to become modern representations of those religions. There’s actually genetic proof that modern Jews are more closely related Syrians, Lebanese and the Palestinians. So if there is in Khazarian blood in modern Jews, it’s a drop at best. Again with the using arguments proved false decades ago.
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/ashkenazim/
http://query.nytimes.com/...F5D0C778DDDAC0894DA404482

And of course you’re going to get that all early Christians were Jews from the bible. I repeat, you cannot argue the bible WITH the bible, as the bible is only going to maintain itself. Of course, there’s no denying that a lot of the early Christians were Jews, but don’t forget Cornelius, [falsely] considered to be the first gentile Christian converted by Peter. He was a Roman centurion and definitely no a scattered Israelite. You can check the bible for that one, if you must.

“2)In regard to the Greeks, the reason why I say that they were wicked is because the scripture tells you they were. They raped the women and the children, forced the people into slavery, and made the men fight naked in the gymnasiums. The Greeks did not rise of their own power, the Lord rose them up because it was their time to rule. That is why I mentioned Dan 8:5-22. They showed Alexander that scripture, he acknowledged them as God’s chosen people, and the Greeks spared the land while he was alive. In regards to the scriptures on reincarnation, there is nothing “vague” about them: Job asks the Most High, in the King James Version, if he will live again if he dies and he gives a self-affirmation. Christ comes out and tells you that John the Baptist is Elijah reincarnated as prophesied in Malachi 4:5,6.”

–Judah, why is it that every time you post a source that isn’t the bible, the link is either broken, or leads to a source that is so loosely based it already been hacked to shreds by most researchers before I even get there? Of course the bible is going to tell you the Greeks are evil, it was written by people who “hated” the Greeks. Every culture, great and small, sophisticated and savage, has a dark side. And if you’re going to call out the Greeks on theirs, I’ll play devil’s advocate and call out Christianity’s. Erm, I’m sure you know about the Crusades. Horrible acts against innocents were (raping of women and children by soldiers) all committed in the name of God. Hell, this war we’re fighting now is in the name of “God”.
http://www.inu.net/skeptic/antisem.html

“3) You reiterating that the Torah wasn’t a part of Christianity doesn’t make you correct. The scriptures are very clear that the law, which is the Torah is still in effect(Matt 5:17, Acts 15:19-21, Rom 3:31, 6:15, 7:1-14, II Cor 3:12-18, etc.). So then what are you saying, that those scriptures were added in after the fact, lol. Then you’re saying that Christ didn’t believe in the law. Be careful, lol.”

–And you reiterating that I’m wrong and throwing in some bible verses doesn’t make you right. I could throw the very same argument back at you. Judah, pretend that I’m an atheist (which I’m not), that doesn’t give a damn what the bible says. How would you argue it? Could you? You’re an intelligent man. Prove it. The Torah was only part of Christianity in the sense that Christianity said it was. Ask any Jew at the time who DIDN’T convert to Christianity and they’d tell you “Hell no our religions aren’t the same”. The early Christian’s claim to the Torah only comes from the fact that Jesus himself was a Jew, but the Christian religion wasn’t based on the teachings of the Torah—that didn’t come until much later. This is evidenced by the fact that there are so many contradictions between the Old Testament and the New Testament, and Jesus himself in the gospels refuted a lot of the Jewish practices in his parables and his arguments with the pharacies. Sure some of the NT fulfills some of the prophecy of the OT, but don’t kid yourself into thinking that makes the two books symmetric. This belief, again, is reflected by society at the time as Jews were exempt from Roman pagan practices, and the Christians weren’t. This also proves that a lot of Christians weren’t Jews, as Jews were circumcised. One of the main methods the Romans had for distinguishing a Jew was by basically checking his junk to see if it was cut. A Christian Jew could easily get out of this, not so much a gentile who had converted. And there were a lot of people persecuted for not following the pagan practices.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/p...religion/why/martyrs.html
http://www.edge.org/3rd_c...agels03/pagels_index.html

“4) Whether or not Plato and Socrates believed in the Torah are inconsequential to me because I do believe. My credence in this is based on an account by a 2nd century B.C. Hebrew historian named Aristobulous. The busts are also very obvious to the point where I’m sure that I’m not the first source you’ve heard for Socrates being black. I’m not an Afro-centrist, the black people here in America are different from the Africans and the Africans know this. That’s why they collaborated with the Arabs and caucasians to sell us into slavery. They call us “katta” which means “cotton-picker”. The white man is reknowned for whitewashing history ever since the renaissance. There’s a reason why so many negro statues have their noses chopped off while the Greek and Roman statues are perfectly intact. Many statues of black Roman emperors had their heads sawed off and a white head plastered on in its place, namely Septimius Severus. In regards to the Israelites being the “gentiles”, there are two types: 1)physical gentiles a.k.a. “heathen” 2)spritual gentiles who were Israelites that had been scattered through migrations, wars, and captivities and had taken on the customs of the heathen nations (Deut 30:1-8, 32:26, Psa 106:35,36, Ezek 22:15, John 7:33-35, I Cor 10:1-5, etc.). You’re confusing the initial movement of Christ’s followers which was predicated off of the fulfillment of the OT prophecies of putting the Israelites back in power through the Messiah (Acts 1:6,7) with the later doctrines that Peter prophesied would spring up (II Pet 2:1-3).”

–As for Socrates, I explained that before. Don’t want to listen to me? Here are some “sources”.
http://www.newcriterion.c...rchive/14/mar96/kagan.htm — not out of Africa argument
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...2-8478398-0116125?ie=UTF8
I will say that nobody really doubted that Septimius Severus was black. It’s almost common knowledge that several Roman emperors could have been black. This is where I disagree most with you. In your effort to prove that anything and everything of any historical importance was done by a black person, you casually overlook all of the Roman scholars and emperors that definitely WERE black. So, who’s doing the greatest disservice to black people? Me or you?
http://www.raceandhistory.../historicalviews/rome.htm

“5)Sure you can prove the Bible with the Bible because the Bible is like the human brain, it’s only used to 5% of its capacity (II Tim 3:16, I Thes 5:21). What separates the Bible from all other books is the prophecy. No other book has it, and if it does, they took it from the Bible. You just don’t believe in it. I’m very aware of the “social situation” at the time of the Levitical law; the other nations were wicked and homosexuality, incest, pedophilia, and child sacrifice were rampant. That’s why the Lord gave us the laws, to civilize us. The reason why Lev 20:13 doesn’t say womankind is because it doesn’t have to. The term “mankind” encompasses the man, woman, and child. Paul expounds on that in Rom 1:25-32 ( a scripture that you’re very aware of I’m sure).”

–You still haven’t explained, without using the bible, how the bible can be argued with it. The prophecy doesn’t mean anything if you don’t believe it, and many other religions detail prophecies. Trust me, it doesn’t make the bible special. Again, argue this as if I’m an atheist.
http://www.atlantabahai.org/others.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy

“6) Sodomy a “grave misinterpretation”, lmao. Alright brother: Matlock, Johnnie Cochran, and Columbo couldn’t prove that one. Have you ever thought that these anti-Bible books that you read may have their own agenda? That the authors may be on some entity’s payroll? Do you know how many archaeological findings were predicated off of the accounts written of in the Scriptures. I would go into it by that would be a debate of its own, lol. When the word “know” or “knew” occurs in the scripture it is often referring to sexual intercourse (Gen 4:1,17,24), so when you read Gen 19:1-8 (the story of Sodom & Gomorrah) you can figure it out yourself. lol.”

–Again with the arguments I could throw right back at you. Have you ever considered that these religious, afro-centric books you read may be purporting their own agenda, at the risk of any credible fact? That their authors might be desperate to bolster black pride with fake history? The truth of Sodom and Gomorrah isn’t something I’m making up. Hell, it’s even described in the bible. There were plenty of things God could have destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for; if there’s one thing I’ll agree it’s that apparently those were some very evil cities. However, where you and I differ is my belief that homosexuality was picked and brought to the forefront (and unrightfully so), to a fuel a homophobic agenda (yes, you guys have an agenda, too). You can deny these arguments by saying you’re going to stick with what the bible says all you want, but that excuse doesn’t hold water when what’s in question IS what the bible says.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...2-8478398-0116125?ie=UTF8
http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/sodomy/bible/

“Let’s get a couple of things straight (no pun intended): Constantine was a negro, he was one of the emperors who had his damn statue head chopped off http://www.millennia.demon.co.uk/ravens/lra.jpg http://www.fhw.gr/chronos/08/images/o/o3p1.jpg
http://www.insecula.com/u...e/photo_ME0000081387.html
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...dp_pt/102-2955147-8546568. Notice in the last picture, he and his entire court have afros and beards, lol. During the Roman and Byzantine Empires, sometimes negroes would straigten their hair. As far as the monks and the Council of Nicea, you have to do more thorough research: many of the Russian and Byzantine Icons and frescoes were altered. Many of the coins are more reliable, even though they’ve been adulterated to a certain degree as well. I’m surprised that you would say that St. Augustine wasn’t black when even the white man tells you that he was, lol. That was on the History Channel the other night in a special on Carthage. You know how many great people in history that we are taught were caucasian that were really negroes; you’d probably catch a damn seizure as much as you love your caucasoid side, lol. I really don’t think that there’s anything else that you can say or do other than acknowledge how much blacks have been lied to in our history. That’s it on that.”

–You have your sources for Constantine being black, and I have mine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...tine_Musei_Capitolini.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...Mosaizist_um_1000_002.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...l_Baptism_Constantine.jpg
http://www.roman-empire.n...ne/constantine-index.html

As for the Germanic tribes: Do blue eyes and freckles sound like African traits to you?
http://www.i-friesland.com/Tacitus_traits.htm

Oh, and your “the coins and frescoes were altered!” excuse is the biggest cop-out. You can do better than that. The bishops who met there were all too far spread for you to possibly claim they all were black. Blacks existed in the Roman empire, yes, but they were still a minority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nicaea.jpg
http://ccel.org/fathers2/...nf2-03-10.htm#P944_169833

“This why the Lord said not to interracially marry (Deut 7:3, Neh 13:23-27); it leads to dual emotions. Keep in mind that you are not debating me, you’re debating against the veracity of the Word of God. You can’t win. You can’t worship the Lord on your terms, you gotta worship him on his terms (Matt7:13). Alot of the points that I brang out that you did not understand were because you don’t have faith and you don’t put the same energy into understanding the Bible that you put into this society’s drastically skewed version of history and philosophy. Brother, I’ma end this by saying that you will have to learn to qualify your intelligence with faith in the scripture because if you cannot do that, and the Most High’s word offends you….then why the hell do you want to go to church.”

–Nobody can worship the Lord on their terms. Not even you. Heck, Bill’s rather immature outburst proved that. What’s being argued here is the fact that SOME people think that the Lord must be worshipped on THEIR terms and THEIR’s alone. Nothing in the bible offends me, though that may be because my interpretation of it may be vastly different than yours. But hey, if everyone followed on one interpretation of the bible, there’d be only one church. My faith is determined by what I feel God wants of me, and that comes from my own reading and prayer—my own reflection and my own relationship with God. It comes from my belief that God loves me unconditionally and that I am not hurting anyone by the way I live my life. I’m probably not your kind of Christian, Judah (heck, I’ll admit that I kinda lean more closely to what the Gnostics believe about Christianity). But, in my opinion, to be able to stand in opposition of people like you, and still stand firm in my beliefs, is where I believe true faith comes from.

Judah

If you think I’m through, you’re sadly mistaken. Again, I tried to make a post, but it’s not showing up, so I PM you.

brother: I’m just getting started.

#244 ummm said … WAKE UP DON’T LET THESE PEOPLE BRAIN WASH YOU HAVE YOUR OWN MIND

Glad you mentioned that. I feel we are divided here some trying to enlist in pittbboi’s class, and the others defending the faith but you are right ummm, everyone should know for themselves and not be brainwashed. We should all pray to God for spitirual discernment and revelation knowledge. The Bible says my people perish because of lack of knowledge. Although alot of these arguments were well articulated, I think that somewhere along the way some people got lost in all the big words and joined a bandwagon for the sake of being on a side. The historical facts, links and research is commendable. I like to see people of color challenge themselves and gain knowledge. But be careful that in gaining knowledge you don’t forget to get wisdom and understanding. The fall of Lucifer was pride, arrogance and self-elevation. I don’t down the reading of books other than the Bible but I do however feel that if you are not grounded in your sight your vision could be clouded or tainted by something that sounds like it should be ‘common sense’. Knowledge CAN be attained without perception being changed. Be careful not to allow other’s views to alter what is truth. Many people on here are like you and LV said ms_mac1 going in circles. Some feel the comments are going no where while others may be impressionable. I know my beliefs and am unapologetic and unashamed. I know Jesus died for ALL and HE saved Me. I can’t quote Socrates, Aristotle, or Nostradamus (sp) but I can speak from experience that when I lost my mom, Jesus comforted me, when I was in an accident with an 18 wheeler, Jesus protected me and allowed me to walk away without a scratch. When I was in my sin and should have died in it’s midst God blessed me with another day to repent. I can’t impress man or please them because to please man is to make emnity with God but I can say this, His Mercy keeps us from what we do deserve and His Grace blesses us with what we don’t deserve. God Bless and Luv ya guys.

Meatloaf, Judah & Diamond Princecess

It’s cool..

those were just jokes..I was letting off some steam.

No harm, no foul…A man just being a man…

Diamond Princess:
I don’t think God is sitting up in Heaven with an attitude, cause I said a few curse words…

I didn’t lose my religion at all…Everyone get’s mad.
Jesus got mad….
Jesus got mad in the temple, and Jesus also called Herod out of his name..
WWJD..
Jesus would go off on people from time to time…
And when he didn’t he would have have Boy “Peter” cut your ear off..

I was just having a “Peter” momment….God can and will continue to use me….

Peace.
Have a BLESSED Day !

Who started this dumb shit anyway? Ya’ll a bunch of idiots, sitting up here holding bible class over the internet and preaching to one another but the benefits or disadvantages of homosexuality. Pittboi you are way too smart to keep responding to these fools. Why are you doing it? Judah and bill, meatloaf, you guys also seem intelligent but you can’t convince someone to believe what you believe. Get over it. I don’t even know what to say. I wish ya’ll would leave this shit alone, for real. This convo is sooooooooo played out.

Post # 308

We’re just debating with each other.

It’s a good thing to give point & counter point with others.

I belive it increases your IQ, and you actually gain additional knowledge and insight.

Although I don’t agree with Pitboll, I got MAD respect for that brother. And I learned a few things talking with him.

At the end of the day, it’s all good..

No harm, no foul…

Good morning my straight and gay brothers! I see some of y’all didn’t get much sleep last night.

Oh, and good morning to you too, GG Boo!

@pittbboi
I think pittbboi needs all of our prayers! I feel like he’s been given over to the enemy! Such a waste! You will never be able to reach your full potential and use the gift that God has given you as long as that thorn remains in your members! What happened in your past to make you this way? The world and black community needs well-read brothers like yourself, but not at the risk of all the foolishness you carry on with other men! It’s sad!

I know you’ve considered what I’m saying, because of the time you’ve spent introspecting! Why use all that knowledge to justify the homo lifestyle? On one hand, I feel proud for your long essay, but on the other hand, I hold my head down and draw in the sand at the choices you’ve made…yes GG Boo, I said choices!

pittbboi, maybe you were abused or sedduced into your current situation, but that’s no reason to continue on! Donny McCurklin was abused as a child too, but he overcame! With the grace of God, you, gizmo and Brian can too! Resist the devil and he will flee from you! All it takes is one step and God will make two for you!

Now, you witnessed how bill recanted some of his steam and admitted that was not him! bill probably works on his temperence daily! In the bible, Peter had the same problem! When he got pissed off he had to learn to humble himself. And, I commend bill for his efforts to self-correct! Learning to self-correct and abstain is no different for alcholics, drug addicts or homos! Even asbury struggles with her temper! We all have something, but homos have lost the ability to love themselves, so they do that which is not normal.

All that knowledge means nothing if you have no wisdom! All of society means nothing if men and women don’t continue to propriate! All the blessing will be wasted if you hold on to secrets and past abuse!

Lay off the words and lean on the Word!

Meatloaf, Preach Sir.

Yes,
Everyday, I have to repent and tell God I’m sorry.

I want to represent him in all that I say & do…

Sometimes I miss the mark…

I ask God on a daily basis to Bless me with Wisdom, Understanding, Revelation, Knowledge & Power…Holy Ghost Power !!!

I’ve also been Asking God to bless to Bless me with one more thing. And that Is Humility.

I work on that on a daily basis, because I won’t be able to draw others to Christ if they can’t get past my
personality.

So if I offended anyone, or said anything to hurt anybody,I would like to offer my sincere apologies.

Please forgive me.

Peace

To al of you struggling with Homosexuality

PLEASE I beg You, Please purchase Donnie McClurkin Newest DVD, From Darkness to Light.

The content below details this DVD
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Editorial Reviews

Product Description
The music of multi-platinum gospel singer Donnie McClurkin has touched the hearts of people everywhere. Now hear this GRAMMY« Award-winning singer’s story from the child who endured a horrendous tragedy that changed his life to the polished artist whose exuberant music and longtime faith helped him heal. In the only film authorized by McClurkin, his music takes on new meaning as he talks about his troubled upbringing, including twenty years of struggling with his sexuality. Musical Performances of the multi-platinum single “We Fall Down” and the heartfelt “Stand” featuring Donnie, Patti LaBelle, Kirk Franklin, Marvin Winans and BeBe and CeCe Winans Featuring interviews with R&B sensation Beyonc? Knowles, Gospel legend Andra? Crouch, Yolanda Adams, Steve Harvey, “Magic” Johnson, Bishop T.D. Jakes, Kelly Price

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27 of 27 people found the following review helpful:

An Inspiration, January 14, 2005
Reviewer: M. Fields (Brooklyn, New York USA) - See all my reviews

Donnie McClurkin shares his own personal pain in order to help someone else. What an inspiration to see someone who went through what he went through come out on top. This just goes to show that you can make it no matter how hard your struggle is. This is why God lets us go through different trails and tribulations. When we prevail, we can tell the story and help someone else. The music is a blessing and it speaks directly to your heart. Pastor Donnie really did come from darkness into the light. His guests will bless you and refresh your soul. I highly reccomend this item to you.

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7 of 7 people found the following review helpful:

This DVD confirms what my spirit always felt –, April 28, 2005
Reviewer: Anetha Johnson (San Diego, CA United States) - See all my reviews

My spirit connected with Donnie McClurkin’s when I first heard of him on his first solo CD in 2001. Songs like “Stand” and “Have a Talk with Jesus” lifted me above my cares during a very trying time in my life. Somehow I knew Donnie was singing from his heart. He was not just making good music, he was commisserating with the Lord whether ‘we’ were getting it or not. I saw him at Hopeville in San Diego a few years ago and the electricity in the room made me stand up and shout to the Lord. It was the most amazing corporate worship experience I ever had up to that point. This DVD gave insight to the reason why Donnie praises and worships the Lord the way he does. He has a testimony that will encourage and inspire any of us who have a ‘past’ that satan wants to use to hold us down. God has a greater purpose for His creation and He will use every experience we go through to that end if we place ourselves in His hands. He is the ‘recovery’ hurting people need. It is a wonderful, unashamed ‘life story’ that Donnie shares with us on this DVD. It can encourage anyone, no matter what you’ve been through or have done, that you can get back up again. God bless Donnie McClurkin for sharing this very open, honest, poignant testimony of his life and deliverance.

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Awesome Story to Tell, May 5, 2006
Reviewer: AC “LISA” (VA) - See all my reviews
I waited to get this DVD because I thought it would be just another singer telling his life story. But when I finally decided to buy it, I realized that it was just that. Someone telling his courageous life story. This DVD what incredibly inspiring. I can’t say enough about his ability to live when life was hard, his courage to tell the most intimate secrets in order to help others, his drive to do what God called him to do, his passion to tell others about the One who delivered him…I am forever changed by his testimony.

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A Blessing, April 23, 2006
Reviewer: L. L. Reese “cancer brain” (Toledo, OH United States) - See all my reviews

This story was a blessing and a healing for life’s journey no matter what you may have been through, there is deliverance and this story shares how to get that deliverance. I wished that I had seen this story before I saw Donnie McClurkin in person about two weeks ago and I would have been more in tune with his ministry even though it was awesome.

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Inspiring…, March 10, 2006
Reviewer: ERIC (Lorman, MS) - See all my reviews
I found this project to be inspirational because it gave insight to the ups and downs of Pastor Donnie McClurkin’s personal life issues, family, friends, and gift. A nice family-oriented work you can share with your family and friends. A must have for fans, because it definitely shows the ’story before the glory’. The DVD is also pack with, backstage passes at special events including awards and concerts. Contains church appearances and celebrity interviews…

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This really blessed my spirit!, February 24, 2006
Reviewer: R. Johnson “R. Johnson” (Texas) - See all my reviews

There are song medleys on this DVD that aren’t even recorded on Cd’s! This really blessed my spirit!!!! I wake up watching and listening to “What a Mighty God We Serve almost everymorning!

______________________________________________________

God Bless You !

Peace.

Well there are certainly no sides in this, everyone is right and everyone is wrong, (including me) but you all do provide some real great insight (well, at least until the insults, insinuations and low blows began to come in, @bill, I have to be honest and tell you that you sounded like a Klan member for a minute. And I’m really not saying that in the general meaning, I’ve come face to face with a few and it’s no joke. I really am going to pray for you because the venom that was spit has the potential to hurt a lot more than anybody’s sexual preference can. You can lash out at me if you want, that’s OK. If you want to a put a bullet through me or call me names, it’s cool. I thought your posting was vile. But I did like your suggestion about the DVD, but know that it is difficult to weed out the good from the bad when you ride the fence like that. But anyway, this post is really old now, but I have a learned a lot. Signing off and everyone be blessed.

bill,

I couldn’t have said it better! You, judah and pittbboi are some amazing writers! You must have a staff doing your research! hehe!

I truly believe that the things you shared will help someone! This wouldn’t be the first time that someone on CL has changed for the better, because of what they read! When your words are on point and seasoned with grace, they won’t come back void! God Works in Mysterious Ways, His Wonders to Perform!

Its one thing when we’re trying to get better, its another thing when we’re not trying to get better, but instead, trying to gain acceptance!

bill, you remind me of my brother! He goes from 0 to 60 in five seconds. Sometimes he just leaves the room to avoid saying things that he’ll regret later. God has given him great patience! He’s learned how to hold steady against opposition! He’s a recovery spokesman…ten years clean!

So, I’ve seen first hand how people change rather than asking people to accept them in a bad situation. The person seeking acceptance has lost all self-respect! Rather than searching for the truth, they look for conscripts and stunts to support their cause! This person has no respect for others!

Now GG Boo,

Its difficult enough to have a man-to-man talk with someone who has so much to hide! Its even more difficult when a sister keeps jumping in trying to fertilize the soil with her mess! Old women should talk to young girls and let the men talk to the men! Paul said women should try and keep quiet in the church! I know its an open forum, but sometimes the blessing are greater if we let go and let God! You should be talking to some of your lesbo sisters! I know many women are not use to this kind of structure, but some are and one of them just might pull your coat! I’m not trying to cut you off, just trying to put you and howdidiknow in your proper place, so that hopefully, these men will get in their place. Can I get an Amen?

@howdidiknow

You must be from mixed parents, because you’re all over the chart! Scary! Wierd! Seek professional help! How many tattoos and piercing do you have? How much pot do you smoke everyday? Sober up, young lady!

howdidiknow, I will get back to you later, but I’m feeling a breakthrough, not brokeback, with pittbboi, gizmo and GG Boo! bill has shown them how its done, if they will take the time to just read what he and judah have said. And then, here you come, “howdidiknow” talking about you “get turn on at the thought of two men being together(sexually)” WTF? Was I right…black father, white mother? Or, is it the drugs?

If you don’t like it, don’t read it Meatloaf. I can put my input in whenever and wherever I like - hence PUBLIC MESSAGE BOARD. If you want to talk amongst men, then go to a private discussion board. Don’t preach to me - I’m not one of your little followers on here boo…

And if we were to adhere to those archaic beliefs, i would never have been able to achieve the level of success that I have. If your mother, sister, nieces or female cousins adhere to those rules, good for them, but some online poster will never be able to rein in the power that is WOMAN - get it right son…

and nah- you haven’t made any breakthrough - already trusted and believed in God, always will, but i still have my own mind. i am who i am. sorry. you like it i love it.

Anybody just now coming on here would think, “wow, Patti LaBelle got somebody to talk about her at least 316 times!” Little do they know…

Meatloaf, where do you get off inferring that, because I’m gay, I must have some deep, scaring childhood? You’re definitely wrong, and the way you’re responding is the key reason DL is so rampant, and you have so many gay men set on living lies and harming others.

Despite what you may think, I grew up in a “normal” household, with a normal life. I’m 20 years old, I go to college, I have a good job, and I live in my own apartment. I’m not out there on the streets, gangbanging, doing drugs, and knocking girls up. Also, I was raised in the church. I grew up on the bible. I live a relatively happy life. Yet and still, I’m gay. The “unhappiness” that you guys claim all us homos suffer from isn’t due to “some” choice we made. It’s due to how bigoted society can be. That includes you, Meatloaf. As some had said earlier, do you think most gays would CHOSE to live a life that has them shunned by most of society? I wouldn’t choose to live a life where I feared everyone around me, my church, and my own family. Where I was afraid that I was going straight to hell for something that I couldn’t change (trust me, I’d know). Who in their right mind would “choose” that? No, though all the attempts to “change” me, through all the screaming my pastors does (thinking the louder he yells the more sense his message will make), I’m still gay. It was something I came to terms with a long time ago. I had to learn to leave my burdens with God, and work with what He gave me and love myself. It is in that comfort that I find my happiness. You may not agree with my view of God, but it’s not there for you to agree with. I only wish that others like me could do the same. I’m tired of seeing unhappy men out there, trying to force themselves to be straight because that’s what society tells them, only to end up hurting themselves, and their families. THAT’s true unhappiness.

I never understood or liked how people constantly related homosexuality to drug dealers and dope addicts. Excuse my language, but gay is not a crack pipe. It’s not as though one day I put a penis in my mouth and got addicted. I’ve known I was gay for as long as I can remember. I knew I was gay before I even knew what the concept “gay” was, and LONG before I was ever sexually active. It wasn’t something presented to me that I chose. People who say that it’s a choice only demonstrate how much they don’t know about it.

I can’t stand when people claim homosexuality is damaging society. Believe what you want, but most of us just want to be left alone. We’re not sick, deprived pedophiles (most pedophiles are straight men going after young girls, anyway). Most of us live happy, successful lives, and those of us who are unhappy are ONLY unhappy because you guys won’t let us be. And why, because you bible tells you to hate us, to pity us, to try and change us, to do everything but leave us in peace. You impose these beliefs on everyone; even those aren’t Christian and could care less about what the bible says. In that sense, you’re essentially doing the same thing the followers of Baal did.

Trust me, if people just let gives live their lives, we’d be a lot happier. Those of us who aren’t already happy, anyway.

DONNIE MCCLURKIN IS A LYING HYPOCRITE…WHATEVER IT IT TAKES TO SELL THE PRODUCT IS WHAT HE WILL SAY….

I HAVE SEEN WITH MINE OWN EYES THAT HE IS NOT ALL THAT HE IS SAYING IN THESE TESTIOMINIALS…AND HE IS DOING MORE HARM THAN GOOD BY NOT ONLY BEING ISHONEST WITH THE PUBLIC BUT NOT EVEN BEING HONEST WITH HIMSELF….

IF YOU GON TELL IT THEN TELL THE TRUTH OR SHUT THE HE*LL UP …

HIS DVD, CD, BOOKS AND WHATEVER ELSE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN MATERIAL TO LINE THE BOTTOM OF A BIRD CAGE WITH

DJ MUTHA

For all you people with the 699-liners. Do you people work? I mean where do you get all the time to write all this shit?

That’s it GG Boo and bittbboi, let it all out! And then, let God reshape you! Let him mold you into a new vessle! I’m beginning to see that no one has ever love on y’all! But, even that’s no reason to go on living a lie! After reading your last comments, I think that both of you are finally getting focused on the key issues! Just remember, when you keep secrets or cover the truth, you prolong the healing! Don’t forget, I can read between your lines and both of you are not being forthright, but you are focused!

pittbboi, I pray that you don’t give blow jobs. Only a male dog licks dick! Why do you think God created man to walk upright with a spine that prevents him from making contact with his mouth and dick? You’re only 20, please tell me that you’re not infected!!! Since you refuse to admit what went wrong in your childhood or past, I can only pray that God lets his spirit rain down on you!

Listen to your pastor! He cares about you! That’s why God put him over you! And, stop blaming others for your unhappiness! The analogy with drugs addiction and alcohol is only meant to draw attention to the sickness! You must treat people with mental health issues like a sickness! The similarities in homo-mental sickness and alcholism are denial, concealment, abuse, depression, defensivness, desease and death! Now, examine yourself and count the number of conditions you suffer from! I’ll get back with you later!

Now, GG Boo! Listen to Mary J’s. song, “A Fathers Love”! This song should make you cry, but only for a moment! Its appearent that you were raised by your mother or aunt! You don’t have to be afraid of me! I want the best for you, but you need to learn what the “WO” in woman means! At the end of a horse ride, the cowboy would say, “Wo horsey wo”! He meant, slow you role! Thus, the word…WOman! Just kidding!

But, please don’t let your low self-esteem turn into bitterness! You too can be a strong woman inspite of your past! No man wants a smart mouth woman who thinks she knows more than him! You could have bowed out of this discussion, but now I see a little of Patti in you.

Don’t feel that you have to try and live on equal grounds with men. That will never happen! God made man the stronger species! You’ll never be ready for marriage until you learn how to submit, keep quiet and learn!

Patti should have taken another approach, rather than speaking before she had time to think! She acted on emotions just like you did when you got to you third back to back to back post! You were out of control! And pittbboi don’t need that kind of influence right now. He needs stability! I’m trying to get the dick out of his mouth and you keep tell him its alright! Go somewhere and talk about Beyonce’ or Rhianna. I’ll get back with you! Listen to Mary J.

seriously?

Are you jealous? If you would have gotten good grades in school and did all the extra credit assignments, you too would have a job with 699-lines. So, don’t be hatin just because you can’t hang! Go back to school and come up!

#306…N/A: your post most closely got the heart of God..and NOBODY seemed to notice or comment on it. I am a Believer and cannot believe some of the comments I’ve read here (from those claiming Christianity and Non-Christians). My post is long.

It boggles the mind at how many people forget that the “heart” of Christianity and Jesus’ ministry is LOVE! I do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle b/c there’s nothing that remotely interests me in another woman sexually. There’s nothing that could convince me there’s anything right about it. That’s just me. However, for those who have chosen to make it their norm, I can still love you as a person…just know and respect that you can’t make me accept the action on any level anymore than I can make you accept my action of confessing Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Does that give me license to spew hateful comments, use profane language, or judge your decision? NO!!!!! Does that give you any right to insult my belief in God and His Word (the Bible)or think that I should accept gay marriage or make a moral issue into a “civil rights” issue? NO!!!!! As a matter of fact, I make a demand that you stop insulting my God and what He stands for. You don’t agree with it? Fine. “Let your yay be yay, and your nay be nay”. Period. In return, you hear no homophobic insults from me.

On the flip side, any true Believer would know that WORDS are also a big part of who God is. Instead of spewing venom, why can’t you use the Word you say you believe, to build up and edify a few folks in here? Can you wonder why folks have such a venomous attitude towards Christians? Because a lot of Christians are snakes themselves and just as sick as the Non-Believers-yet you use God as your justification for being just plain mean and ugly. Get your spirit in check. The only difference between us all is our confession of Jesus Christ and His gift of Righteousness which allows us to be able to approach Him, through prayer, to get it right and change. But, don’t be fooled to think you can use that gift to go out and condemn others. Who do you think you are? We should be shouting from the rooftops, with joy, about what God did for us and the Grace and Mercy he gives us daily. We live in this day and time to be God’s Ambassadors…folks who treat others with Love. Jesus was not a pushover by any means, but when he spoke, he shut the naysayers up by speaking words that got to the Heart of the matter. He didn’t insult them. Stop bashing folks over the head and telling them what they ought to do, debating with non-believers, and concentrate on living a life and having a heart that will draw folks to God through you (Nothing works quite like results and manifestation!) Also, before responding to topics like this, try asking God what to say, in order to impact a person’s heart, before typing something crazy and putting God’s name as an icing over mess.

For Non-Christians, I don’t know your experiences with the Christians you’ve come across, but I beg you to not lump all Believers in one category. I also beg you not to build your case against God/Jesus/Holy Spirit based on what someone else has told you. Find out for yourself. Why don’t you ask God to introduce himself to you? He’ll use people (that’s what we’re here for) to do that. But please be aware that Satan will not just stand by and allow this to happen. You’ve been working for him all this time and he’s had no reason to mess with you. He will do any and everything he can to get you away from God and his Word. Study to show yourself approved. Go on your own journey and find out about Christ yourself. Likewise, with Christians, until you are able to have an intelligent, mature conversation with a homosexual and realize there are many reasons WHY folks choose this lifestyle (any alot of folks DID choose it) & are still people with a heart, thoughts, and feelings, who are you to comment? Being around a homosexual person, for a few minutes or a day, will not change who you are, unless you choose to change.
To all, I leave this measuring stick: WORDS produce a THOUGHT which produces a FEELING that produces a DECISION which prompts and causes an ACTION which forms a HABIT creates your CHARACTER which takes you to your DESTINATION in life (Negative or Positive, Life or Death). ALL OF YOU know (you can play dumb if you want) the difference between right and wrong. I encourage everybody to examine your own lives, the decisions you’ve made, which is why you are where you are, and THE MOTIVATION behind why you made the decision (What made you decide to become a Christian or a Homosexual?), and the ROOT of those decisions(everything has a root, or an origin). The truth of the matter is that no one likes to hold the mirror up to themselves, or want the light turned on, to the true nature of their hearts? Certainly, no one likes it shined to a point where others can see it. We’ve become Masters at Play-acting, at putting forth an Image, and at being too Self-Involved, Self-Absorbed, and all about yourselves to the exclusion of someone else. Who are we all really? What are we all doing in the back, in the booth, in the corner, in the dark? This is your true character-who you are when no one’s looking. Are you the same when I do peep your way? Check your hearts b/c alot of you are really showing it here.

My apologies for the long post. Now, I can move on in peace.

Jqueen,

So, I went back and read #306 and after I read what you wrote! And, I agree with the Holy Ghost, but God uses us in different ways. Preachers preach, teachers teach, singers sing and warriors put on the whole armor! Stay steadfast and keep doing what you do best. But, believe me when I say, “God works in Mysterious Ways, His wonders to perform!”

Meatloaf, I do believe that you just like controversy and mess. But I also think you’re trade. That’s why you’re picking on homosexuals. You may act like a masculine dude and you might like girls, but I know you get down too. See that’s what your type do. Ya’ll sit and pick with openly gay guys to fuck their head up and that’s makes you comfortable with who you are. You’re a lady Meatloaf.

Thank You #325… Meatloaf - first of all, if I was seeking any type of father figure it definitely wouldn’t be with a guy named meatloaf. I really hope you’re not in the trade of any sort of social work because your ASSumptions make you look truly ignorant, and, yes, at this point I realize you’re trying to get a rise out of me and make me explain this and that about who I was raised by and blah blah balh. You apparently were raised by an abusive father who probably made you do naughty things while reciting scripture. And your mom probably watched which is why you have this pent up anger and ignorance against women…There…was I pretty close? So it’s okay for you to feel the way you do. Make sure You get it all out and then mommy will burp you!

And like I have told you I am not gay just because I speak my mind. If I were to use that gauge, then you’re probably ATTRACTED to pittboi more than anything else. You keep typing just so you can stay in communication with him. It’s ok to be on the DL Meatloaf. Just don’t let the folks in your church know.

Woop woop! 3rd post! I’m out of control again - my man love my intellectual mouth, my ability to hold my own and be my own person. I can’t have 3 posts back to back? Look at the length of some of your posts and try again honey - Just because you could never handle a woman like me doesn’t mean that there aren’t stronger or better men than you can. You don’t have anything to learn, there’s no value to your posts. I would much rather read judah’s or pittboi’s anyday. Your feeble attempt to hide who you really are by trying to insinuate about others is making it quite obvious what your preference is.

Wait wait wait! This is my 4th post now - I’m really wilin now — in the T-PAIN post please read what you wrote in your #59 post!! You DESCRIBED WHAT YOUR PENIS LOOKS LIKE TO ANOTHER MAN!!! HA HA HA! Oh!! Whew! That was a knee-slapper!

- oh i’m sorry, you prefer the word “dick” Ah well all those posts for nothing…

GG Boo ! We just outed Meatloaf and that’s why he’s not responding. I read that comment on the T-Pain post. He’s trying to talk like he’s exclusively into women knowing all along he’s a Trade Boy. I’ve read his posts from way back and I can tell he’s a ‘LADY’.

@ Guzman - *ha ha ha!!* I couldn’t believe what I read! I have NEVER in all my life heard a man describe what his genatalia looks and feels like when he has a woody…to another guy. He worked so hard to try to play everybody on here and he’s…well, naw i won’t go there. You feel me though Gizmo…

GG Boo: I truly believed Concrete Loop has lost a member. ATTENTION ALL BLOGGERS: GG Boo and Guzman has officially put Meatloaf “OUT” of business.

@ #323 Jqueen, God is definitely using you to get His message across. I agree 100% with what you have said and I see that you are truly in tune with God. Your comments are spirit-led and that is how we all who “claim” to worship God should respond in every post. Not just when we are convicted to be “Sunday Christians” or “Religious-topic posts Christians”. I also take a stand with you and take offense at the name of my GOD being manipulated for people’s conveniences.

“(What made you decide to become a Christian or a Homosexual?),”

Oh yeah, it’s all because I sat in my room one day, weighed my options, and decided, “yes, being gay is the best choice for me”.

…not.

I liked your post until that point. Would you like me to claim that you chose to be heterosexual? No, because you didn’t. I mean, I don’t understand how people can be attracted to the opposite sex, so that must make it weird and wrong. That’s basically the extent of your logic. Being gay is not a choice just because YOU can’t understand it.

Being tolerant of us doesn’t mean that you have to suddenly go to gay bars and become best friends with gay people. Accepting us doesn’t mean you have to become buddy-buddy and march with us, fighting the good fight. It means that you’ll just let us live, in peace. Trying to interfere in our lives without just cause, saying you don’t have a problem with it while at the same time patronising us with “Oh, you can be gay, just understand it’s a choice you made and God will be right there when you decide to turn away from the sickness” is NOT tolerating us. It’s not leaving us in peace. It’s forcing your beliefs on us.

king john
http://www.rondotheatre.co.uk/pics/KingJohn.jpg

Pittbboi:

That’s how you see it, but that’s not what I meant.

I will explain why I said: “What made you decide….?” I will also expand on that to include a possibility as to why you may have had certain “feelings” since you were born.

Anything we’ve experienced, since we were born, is a learned behavior. I was not born knowing I would be a Christian, just as you weren’t born knowing you would be gay. However, there IS such a thing as a Generational Blessing or Curse that may have been the reason why you were born with certain feelings. Lost already? Well, follow me….

As you know, when we’re born, we inherit physical and behavioral traits from our immediate or ancestral family. This also applies in the spirit realm and can be positive or negative. Did you know that decisions your ancestors made can effect you years or decades later? For your understanding, Pittbboi, I will use my own life as an example: Lust (the Root) has been, and still is, a generational curse I’ve had to deal with. It has manifested itself in many forms on my paternal side. My aunt is a lesbian, my uncle has repeatedly committed adultery, my own parents had me out of wedlock, and etc. As a child, I wondered why I was always thinking sexual thoughts or had sexual doors “always available” and was even approached twice by girls. For some, it may be drugs or alcohol. For others, it could be domestic abuse, or whatever. In this case, it was Lust. Please remember that Flesh is flesh. It will respond to someone rubbing you, kissing you, etc…no matter who it is. The difference is: You have to make a decision as to whether or not you will yield to that “feeling” or yield to what you know to be right. All Satan wants to do is create a doubt by having you question: What is really right?

At the point where you were vulnerable, who/what influenced you to think: “Well, that makes sense?” and you went with it. What was stronger? The attraction for boys or the God-infuences? For you, the attraction to men. For me, I chose men and God. Yet, the battle continues until I fully allow God’s spirt (through Word and prayer) to win out over my desire to be married and have sex (I’m a virgin by the Grace of God and ready…lol!). You know we try to help God out, but anyway, along with the sexual thoughts, I also was aware of God’s presence in my life and the “indicators” that went along with that (surviving accidents, my own conversations with him and His presence in my room, dreams, etc.) I didn’t get born again until college, so I was not aware of any blessing or curse until much later, but as I hit my pre-/teen years, God’s “bumpers” started pushing me towards the decision I made to be born again(Counseling a friend at 14, who snuck a guy in her bedroom and thought she was pregnant). BIG GOD BUMPER: God won b/c I was scared of what my folks would say if I had to tell them the same thing. Satan’s Suggestion: (He waited until I was older) “Your girls are having sex, go ahead and do it. Your boyfriend wants to. He’ll go to that other girl if you don’t.”

So, as an Adult, I’ve learned about Generational Curses and taken the time to “put feelers out” about the “personality” of my ancestors as far back as my Grandmothers and other older relatives can remember. I’m also “gently” asking around about my aunt’s experiences to find out why she made the decision to be a Lesbian. (Found out fr. Dad, b/c aunt’s very sensitive about it) Just know that most folks probably won’t want to rehash negative experiences, but if you feel comfortable, ask someone one-on-one about whether or not Uncle So & So had a boyfriend. It may seem silly to you, and you may insult what I’ve had to say, but MAYBE I also might be right. Try it. The experiences that popped up in your life were “tests”. Out of those, you had to make decisions as to what you were going to do or how to handle it.

For me, with understanding, I now know that the chain of LUST is stopping with me b/c I’ve made that decision. Just as an alcoholic’s kid may choose not to drink, I’m aware that my decisions will affect my household and future generations. I’m accountable for what I do and have a responsibility to “overcome as many things now”, including lust, so my kids don’t even have to deal with it. Think about it Pittbboi. Who will bear the burden of the decisions you are now making? I’m not saying that what I said applies to your experience, but this world is FULL of INFLUENCERS, which are things used to point us towards making decisions…good or bad. You were feeling “different”? Who, or what, influenced you to roll with that “different” feeling? You still had to make a decision as to which way you were going to roll, Pittbboi. It’s not up to me to judge whether your decision to live a gay lifestyle is right or wrong. I’m not condemning you to hell at all. But, I do want you to THINK about your life and how you got to 20-years old thinking the way you think. Dig deeper than the surface to look at your own accountability and decision-making and what could have influenced it. Then, think about the possibility of taking the journey to discover if the spiritual realm does indeed exist and how it has impacted who you are and how you “see” things. By your posts, it’s clear that you have accumulated a lot of BOOK KNOWLEDGE, and have also shown yourself to not be a fan of the Bible. But, here’s the major difference between the Bible and other religious texts (you are certainly welcome to see for yourself): God resides in His Word. All scriptures are God-inspired and God-breathed. John 1:1: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”.

I encourage you, and everyone, to meet God as a Spirit, instead of God as some “religious entity” where you can learn factual information, b/c that’s where it IS open to interpretive opinion. However, there’s no mistaking the presence of God and there’s no copycat. You can get this experience by starting with His Word, Pittbboi. You have your opinion about what the Bible is? See for yourself. Approach Him with an attitude of discovery instead of negativity (make it new. Push all the negative Christians and church-folk out of your mind. You’re not doing it for them anyway). Just know that Satan will do his best to stop you by trying to influence your intelligent mind and creating doubt. Just know that once you’ve experienced the Spirit of God, you’ll never be the same. I guarantee it.

You have a blessed day!

GG Boo and Guzman,

Y’all are two sick black people! Every man’s “penis” (dick) should get firm at 5:00 A.M.! Rosters crow, lions roar, and men get erect…except for those like pittbboi, gizmo, DJ mutha and the music contributor who all prefer to secrete in the mornings! hehe! I still can’t quite figure out what’s wrong with y’all!

Jqueen,

You write a good essay, but you have to snatch people from fire! You can’t just break it down like Jqueen did in 500 words, hoping they’ll hear you! You wrestle these queers to the ground and drag their azzes out feet first! Stop sugar-coating it for these monkeys!

A drug addict has to be moved from his community and buddies! He’s given very little money and they always have to travel in pairs. Alcoholics have patches and hot-lines they can call when they get weak or drunk! But, there’s nothing for the homos! Who can they call? Who’s dragging them back to the coochie? Certainly not GG Boo or Guzman! Why?

Oh and by the way, just ask asbury and she’ll tell you, “I gets mine!” I’m alpha male and I believe you’re what you say you are until you say something like, “In the “trade” which only true soilders know about!

GG Boo, did you do your homework assignment with Mary J.? Back east, women like you come a dime a dozen! At least the Southern women know how to chill after being told! You man must be challenged!

pittbboi,

At some point, you’re gonna have to admit that you have a problem or your denial will get the best of you! Your life expectancy is about age 34! That’s too young to die! Why don’t you love and respect yourself and your family? Reciting Shakespear is not going to make you a man! Don’t be afraid of women!

What’s wrong with you, man?

Meatloaf–the only conclusion I can come to is that you’re possessed by demons. lol. Kidding…

However, you’re really not worth my time debating, as nothing you’re saying makes a shred of sense. I’ve got nothing but love and respect for myself and my family, and just because you say it isn’t true doesn’t make you right.

pittbboi,

So, you’re saying that your family accepts what you do with your mouth and azz?

I see a demon in your Avatar! Not Kidding!

This is not a debate! I’ve given you specific things to do and focus on! Now get busy, so we can get you cured! You seem like you’re ready to fess up!

Pittboi, Bro, just leave that alone….

JQueen

At what point did I lead you to believe that I wasn’t spiritual? I am VERY spiritual. That’s another misconception: gay people can be–and a lot are–very spiritual. It was through my spirituality, my personal relationship with God, prayer and reflection that led me to being comfortable with myself as a gay man. It wasn’t turning away from religion. I gave myself to God and told Him that I would be receptive to whatever He wanted me to be. That’s where I found my happiness. That was years ago, and though I am still involved in my religion, I am still a gay man. You might not agree with my view of God, but it’s not there for you to agree with. People seem to have a problem when I tell them about my relationship with God, because at the end of the day it doesn’t make me just like them. I hold myself accountable only to Him.

Yes, I have a lot of “book smarts,” but I also know a lot about my religion. I’ve read my bible from cover to cover several times. So it’s not as if I’m speaking blindly. I know what the bible says, and I know how certain people interpret certain things. But, to me, the bible has always been just a supplement to the relationship you should already have with God. I have respect for it in the sense that it is the book of my religion, but I don’t view it as something to be taken literally word for word. There are too many contradictions and antiquities within its pages.

And this, to me, is where the importance of knowing the history of Christianity comes in. If there’s one thing I fault Christianity for, it’s that it doesn’t teach its followers about it’s history. Again, Christian Doctrine is VERY different from Christian HISTORY. I feel it’s just as important to know the origins of the bible as it is to know the bible itself. For how can anyone make an accurate decision about their religion without knowing its roots? Sadly, you don’t get that from Church. The Jews teach their children their history as well as their teaching, and the result is a group of people whose faith is unshakable. To me, it’s important to note the social circumstances of the time the books of the bible were written. Who wrote them. WHY they wrote them (the answer to that isn’t always God-breathed). Knowing the books that ALMOST made it into the bible but didn’t, and WHY they didn’t make it into the bible. What effect did all of this have on society in their time. These are very important questions, and I have to tell you, the answers to a LOT of them are very shocking. Our bible is just as much a product of the POLITICS of the time of its conception as it is God-inspired. A lot of people don’t like to admit this, but that doesn’t make it any less true. Don’t get me wrong, the bible IS important. But, to me, it isn’t the end-all be-all of my faith in God. For example, why would I place ALL of my faith in a book that, at one time, was convincingly used to justify the enslavement of my people?

I’ll never forget the class I took my freshman year of college: Origins of Christianity. The class was in one of the larger lecture halls and it was still PACKED. A lot of people thought that it was going to basically be a bible-study in school type of class. Many kids brought their bibles to the first class, even though it wasn’t on the syllabus as required reading. The class was taught by a religious, God-fearing woman, with a doctorate in religious studies. The first day she told us that she went to church every Sunday, and that she had been to all the holy sites, and that despite what we would learn in her class, she DEFINITELY was a Christian.

Then her class became very shocking. I would sit in class and listen to this woman shoot bible verses off the top of her head faster than I could take notes, quote names and dates while most of the class struggled to keep up in the books. A lot of what she told us was very shocking. She showed us that, despite what the bible tells us, Christianity has a very shady past. A past filled with lies, deceptions, and death. Horrible acts had been committed in the name of our God. The Christian religion was one that was largely founded on blood, and the backs of other religions. What’s more surprising is that she had facts to back everything up. She wasn’t lying, and if anyone questioned her she could tell you EXACTLY where to go to find out for YOURSELF. You guys think I’m smart? This woman knew infinitely more than I did. And the power and authority she spoke with! She didn’t have to raise her voice or jump around and clap her hands. Her words commanded our attention. It was both intriguing and terrifying; intriguing to hear what she was saying, but terrifying because she was unraveling everything you thought you knew about Christianity. It wasn’t surprising to hear a girl or two crying during her class, or people getting up and walking out. One girl even brought in her pastor, and when the professor asked him what brought him there, he replied, “I’m here to set you straight.” Man, she shut him down without so much as breaking a sweat. He was a stuttering, sweaty mess by the time she was through with him. Had him walking the aisles in frustration while she hadn’t so much as left her seat.

It wasn’t until the end of class when I was able to talk to her in private (it was more about notes for the exam, though. lol). It was then that I asked her, knowing what she did, believing what she did about all the bad things the early Christians were responsible for and how a lot of Christian convention was false, how she could still be a Christian. Her response was this: “That’s where real faith comes from. The faith people have now is phony. How is it faith when you live in a country where the majority of its people share your beliefs? How is your faith being tested, when everywhere you go people are either telling you to believe in the Christian God or assuming that you do? Knowing the truth about what you believe in, being able to say that you know about its questionable past, that you’ve done the work, and it is still the religion you follow. That’s where you need real faith.”

To this day that is still the most provocative thing anyone has ever said to me.

pittbboi said:

“I gave myself to God and told Him that I would be receptive to whatever He wanted me to be. That’s where I found my happiness. That was years ago, and though I am still involved in my religion, I am still a gay man.”

—————————————————–

Okay, you’re 20 now, so all that happened when you were what: 10, 13, 17 or 19 years-old? You were unhappy and found happiness at age 10 or 15?

pittbboi, you’re full of it! Puberty for boys is just starting around age 12 to 14 and you had already gone into depression, not happy, discovered you were gay, found the Lord and made peace with Him over your unhappiness? You want us to believe that?

And, what’s all the talk about the special “God” that only you’ve fashioned for yourself? And, why would “your God” or anybodies God allow his bible to be filled with “contradictions and antiquities”? You’re saying God somehow, lost control and men just started writing what they wanted to? But yet, the birds can still fly south for the winter! Has CL changed anything you’ve posted on this blog?

A house divided against itself will surely fall!

And, your teacher showed you were: “Christianity has a very shady past. A past filled with lies, deceptions, and death.” Give me some facts! Don’t tell me that Peter “lied” when he said he wouldn’t deny Christ! Or, that Judah “decieved” Christ and betrayed Him for thirty pieces of silver! And, please don’t tell me that Christ was put to “death!”

What “terrible acts” were committed in the name of God? You wasted all that essay you wrote and gave no facts to support the alligations! Not very smart!

You said: “The Christian religion was one that was largely founded on blood, and the backs of other religions.”

—————————————————

Well yeah…the blood of Jesus! It was the blood on Calvary that made the difference! And sure, there were other religions then and now, but Christ gave us Christianity! We no longer live under the Mosiac Laws and old the cerimonial commandments. So, is that why you think its alright to suck another man?

I don’t think your smart. I think you’re sick and crafty! An introvert without a real life, who turned to the path of least resistance and got turned out by another man when you became to terrified to approach girls! It must not take much to shock you…timid little girl! You might know a little about history, but I bet you can’t change a flat or date a woman! hehe!

Sometimes, the more degrees, the more deseased, Mr. Smarty! hehe! Now, you’ve heard something more provocative than that mess you heard from the religious god-fearing PHD woman!

What’s the professors name? I’ll look her up!

And, your therapy is for you to stop sleeping with men…not demostrating your essay skills and wasting all of CLs blog space! Go on a date with a woman and tell your homeboys to get lost!

LOL–Meatloaf, you want facts? Check out all the other posts that I addressed to Judah, and check out those links. And you have some nerve to say I don’t back up anything I say, when you’re the Concrete Loop King of talking out the ass. Anyway, what I wrote about learning in that class was simply to fill you in, not to convince you. I’m not going to spoon feed it to you. If you want to learn more you can look it up, yourself.

You know absolutely nothing about life, or what I do with my time. Only a fool who knows he has nothing of value to say relies on personal attacks based on things he doesn’t. Again, you’re not worth anybody’s time.

And, as an aside…my dad taught me how to change my first flat when I was 8.

I’ve come to realize that you are a big lier!

He taught you how to change a flat at 8…well how old were you when he told you about the facts of life and girls?

You just did what you accuse me of doing! hehe! You had nothing to say of value, so you turned to personal attacks. Hypocrite!

And, stop trying to act like you bad…little girl! You’re the Concrete Loop King of whistling out the azz! hehe! You know yo azz whistles when you walk backwards! hehe!

What makes you think I want to read that garbage you tried to sell judah! He didn’t buy it and neither do I! Now, you check out this link: http://www.I gotgayAids.com

I’m a liar, Meatloaf? Come now, you can do better than that.

And don’t try to piggyback on Judah. Judah’s an intelligent man, and it was a pleasure and a challenge debating with HIM. Meatloaf, you’re just pathetic.

I’m not going to get into a petty contest to see who can come up with the best school-yard insult. So consider this my last time responding to you in this topic, Meatloaf. Calling those links and my arguments garbage all the while admitting you didn’t even read them exposed your own immaturity. I’m done with you.

Meatloaf–you speak with a lot of ignorance and hate. I hope you accept the “help” you tried to offer me…

Oh and by the way, just ask asbury and she’ll tell you, “I gets mine!” I’m alpha male and I believe you’re what you say you are until you say something like, “In the “trade” which only true soilders know about!
Meatloaf: I wouldn’t have told anybody that I slept with Asbury if that what you’re implying. Have you seen her pics on here ? The old ones ? Shame on you. But you are trade. That’s why you keep fucking with Pittboi. I believe you like him. I honestly do. Alpha males are also the first ones to engaged in homosexual activity such as in prison, military, bootcamp, and so on. It’s a control thing. It’s that superiority complex. You’re gay baby.

Meatloaf - i don’t care what the girls north, south east or west do. You have no idea about me and where i am from, if i talk with an accent or with a twang. Fact is, you described what your penis looks like to another man. No getting around that one buddy. I don’t know any ALPHA males as you describe them who does that. And now you’re trying to say you had sex with Asbury? Now, unless you’re married to her are you suggesting sex outside of marriage!? After all your preachings? Get off Mary J’s breasts - she doesn’t even know you exist boo. I would tell you to take your defeat like a man, but we all know why you can’t do that. You can’t change who Pittboi is so you’re mad. You got your panties in a bunch because you slipped and revealed who you were. You don’t read or comprehend other people’s posts because you are a closed-minded little person who tries to use Christianity as a sword to cut other people. As I said a long time ago, you are going to live a tough life if you don’t get used to the fact that people are different from you. And believe me, there is nothing you can tell me about Southern women…well actually you seem to know a lot about being a woman…hmmm. yeah all males might get a woody in the morning, but no ALPHA MAN would describe it to another man. You were wrong for some of the things that you have said and while I know you are sensitive about admitting you were wrong to a female, you were. Boo - it’s 2006. Southern women don’t do what you described…why don’t you ask some of the posters. They’ll tell you where you can put your assignment dude. Everybody has seen you for what you are and why you’re acting like this in this post — don’t hold it back any longer…just come on out!
OMT - My man is a strong brotha who gets mad respect from me because we can talk about any and everything. He’s secure in his manhood so he doesn’t get intimidated by my ability to stand my ground. But YOUR man is obviously challenged!

I’m done with you, your comments are lame and you’re not worth talking to anymore. So say whatever you like about a woman’s place this that and the other, just remeber I leave when I want to, not when some dude hyped up because his penis gets semi-firm in the morning told me to. Enjoy this post by yourself.

GG Boo

…do you mind if I co-sign? lol

You post makes a lot more sense than any of meatloaf’s ever did.

Meatloaf is an abortion gone wrong. Think about what meatloaf looks like. I know. Disgusting to think about.

Pittboi - you get mad respect from me - please keep doing you - the information you write is so well thought out — but I am sure that we won’t be seeing you as much when school gets back in! Seriously - you seem like a very level-headed guy who knows who he is and where he’s going and that deserves respect. You can absolutely co-sign!
@Guzman - …a meatloaf! Ha ha!

Good morning silence, good morning to myself! Good morning to the pain in the center of my chest! Its crazy how much I miss a simple word from my queer friends, but they all said they were done with me forever! Such a harsh reality in life when you loose “special” people!

I still don’t accept your wicked ways pittbboi! But wait, who am I talking too…nobody’s reading! GG Boo’s done with me and you co-signed! Too hot in the kitchen…girlfriend!

And no, I’m sorry GG Boo, pittbboi does NOT know who he is or where he’s going! Don’t waste respect on doom! And, stop loosing sleep over something that doesn’t really concern you! Your man must be soft like ttbboi, and I’m not talking about another man’s dick, so don’t trip! I’m talking about him being soft for letting you run yo damn mouth! hehe!

OMT - GG Boo, you called the strong brotha who lets you speak yo mind,…”my man”! Does that mean he’s not your husband and does that mean you’re his concubine, because I know you can’t handle the word “hoe”? I’m just asking!

pittbboi, you know you live a lie…don’t clown! True is, the reason why its hard to walk away is because you know I’m right! According to your collective brilliance, this should be the last post on this subject, but don’t hold your breath!

Prince,

You sound like an expert on gay-lifestyle in prison! I’ll take your word on that subject. hehe! What’s your story, man? Are you happy for pittbboi too? I’ll see how supportive you are when he signs his final post! You and Guzman are strange sympathizers! WTF? You sound pretty sweet yourself! asbury is a big fine woman! And yes, I like what she’s working with! But, I’m a man and she’s a woman! Not like pittbboi and gizmo or Adam and Steve!

This is pretty cool! I’m not use to having the last word…especially around high strung women like GG Boo who hasn’t been broken yet! A wild horse is no good until somebody breaks her azz! And GG Boo, you are one wild pony!

Now, back to you pittbboi! This was never a debate! I was trying to snatch yo azz from a burning fire. It was a one-way endeavor! I saw a brother who admitted that he was sick and I tried to give him some steps back to manhood, but then all these sympathizers came along and started telling him its okay to burn! Only you know about the lies and deception in your life!

By the way, GG Boo says that ttbboi’s writing is well thought out, but she cleverly stops short of endorsing his gayness! The spirit won’t allow her to do that! She cares about you ttbboi just like I do, but we have different ways of expressing it! She tells you gay is okay and I’m telling you to man-up! Jesus would say, “get thee behind me satin”!

To be continued…

wtf

Thank you to the staff at concreteloop for allowing me to hopefully post this response, which is why its been delayed. The TRUTH has to come out. This is in response to #304 (PittBoi). I hope that Mandisa stays strong. Patti LaBelle is a prime example of how the older generation of negroes has failed us. This will be the last post of this length so please do not delete it.

1)My sources for the black presence in Europe from the Roman Empire through the Renaissance come predominantly from CAUCASIAN authors, lol. As for the “afrocentrist” books that I have referenced, their information comes from CAUCASIAN studies and records (as if that needs to be said to make them more valid). So you’ve got to tell me why caucasian authors are writing books that tell you that blacks ruled Europe. What’s their agenda? Did they create the deteriorating statues too? Lol. I need you to answer that for me. Yeah, I know your proud about the achievements of your race: Things like “A negro invented peanut butter” LMAO. Negro please, it’s much deeper than that.

2)As far as the Khazars, don’t take up your argument with me. Take it up with the CAUCASIAN jewish authors that said that these Jews are not the real Jews, lol:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...2-2955147-8546568?ie=UTF8
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...2-2955147-8546568?ie=UTF8
When you read the Bible it is very clear that lack of skin pigmentation is a curse (Lev 13:1-8, etc.) As for those links that you directed me to; they only show how confounded you are. Do you understand that when they say that the Jews have genetics patterns similiar to Syrians, Lebanese, and Palestinians that they are basically exposing their Khazarian Turkish kinship. Those people in the Middle East now are not the same people that were there in antiquity. They are the descendants of Ottoman Turks; caucasian Muslim invaders from the CAUCASUS MTS. LMAO. Wordgames and semantics to confound the simple (and it works on some).

3)As for that madness of, “you can’t prove the Bible with the Bible”, as I’ve said before, you just don’t believe in the Bible and you value the word of man over the Word of God. The Bible is the book of the Law; you can’t be a lawyer in this land’s judicial system without referring to the law of the land to prove your case. You really are cursed (Isa 44:18, II Cor 4:3,4)because you cannot see how silly you sound in your attempts to sound intelligent, LMAO. Cornelius’s role in the scripture is to show that the other nations have to acknowledge the superiority of the Israelites as God’s people because the Lord deals with order(I Cor 14:33). That’s why he bowed to Peter. That’s also what Christ was referring to in John 10:34, Psa 82:6, and Matt 15:21-28. Peter’s vision and the conversion of Cornelius was a parable and the fulfillment of prophecy. The Lord has used men of the other nations throughout the Bible to fulfill prophecy(Jer 43:10, Isa 45:1, Dan 4:17) but the Israelites are his chosen (Deut 7:6, Isa 44:1). If you understood the OT you would see that the NT contains numerous quotes from the OT.

4) The Crusades were a series of wars that were fought by black Israelite Christian kings to reclaim Israel, their ancestral land from the Ottoman Turks.
http://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu.../Fontevrault-tombs1-s.jpg
http://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu.../Fontevrault-tombs5-s.jpg
http://www.rondotheatre.co.uk/pics/KingJohn.jpg
http://yalepress.yale.edu...mages/full/0300082916.jpg
Notice on the first pic, Richard the Lionheart had shields of David on his sheet. They also tried to chip off the brown paint, lol. Pittboi you’ve got to tell me who the hell is going around creating these negro statues because I know that you have white pictures of all these people, right? Lol. As far as the women and children, there hasn’t been a war fought that there were not casualties and rapes and pillaging. The Crusades failed because the Most High will give back the land (Zeph 3:8). The war in the Middle East has nothing to do with religion. He says that to appease his Bible belt constituency. Bush is a satanist,rapist, and a homosexual himself. Ablack woman in Texas accused him of raping her and her husband and they were killed before the case could go to court.
http://www.thoughtcrimenews.com/bushrape.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon

5)I don’t have to “argue” the veracity of the Bible with an atheist because I’m not looking for converts. It”s inconsequential to me who believes and who doesn’t(Rom 3:3). The same negroes that don’t believe are the ones that scream Jesus’s name when they get shot or stabbed, lol. Atheism is nothing but guilt to cover for satanism b/c the mentality becomes just to do what makes you “feel good”. That would make you an animal. You make many bold claims about Christianity that you don’t expound on. Let me ask YOU some biblical questions that I NEED ANSWERED. What are the contradictions between the OT and the NT? What about the conversations between Christ and the Pharisees? You’re so enamored of that religion profeesor in your college because you don’t know the Bible and she told you what you wanted to hear. She probably doesn’t know a damn thing, lol. If there was no problem with not being circumcised, how come they had a council about it (Acts 15th chap.)? All Paul was trying to do was bring them back into the fold slowly. Christianity was viewed as a Jewish sect (Acts 24:5, 28:22) that was frowned upon because they believed that Christ was the Messiah. Please disprove that, as well as anwsering the other questions I asked you. The Jews were exempt from the laws of Rome because they numbered in the millions, were very rebellious and fought 2 wars with the Romans. As I’ve stated before, the scattered Israelites stopped many of the practices of the covenant (Psa 106:34-46). Circumcision was one of them obvously. You CLAIM that you’ve read the Bible many times but you still have NO understanding.

6)Homie, I deal with books, not articles and I already have that book (Not Out of Africa). She tried to cut Black Egyptologists, which is a false doctrine started by Black Freemasons to make the blacks in America think that they’re Africans, but she proceeds to expose herself as a fraud. BTW, did you know that there are numerous white Egyptologists in history that believe that the Greeks stole their ideas from Egypt (Gerald Massey, Godfrey Higgins, etc.) Lol. Take it up with them, not me. I don’t care either way. Much of her book is based on supposition and hearsay to the point that she dismisses eyewitness accounts (i.e. Herodotus) if it doesn’t correspond to her theory of history. Then she quotes from Frank Snowden, a negro whose books I also have, and he himself is confounded because he says that the Ancient Egyptians weren’t black but he shows sculptures in his book of african egyptians, lol. By his definition 95% of negroes in America are not black!! Then she says that the use of “Niger” in the Bible (Acts 13:1) shows that Simeon must have been an ethiopian, when Simeon is a hebrew name. LMAO. The cover-up continues.
As for Septimius Severus and that other article, I’ve already read that and please spare me. You probably never even heard of him or the black presence in Rome before I mentioned them. All of a sudden you’re Mr.”Black Power”? LMAO. Don’t try to play me with that disservice sh*t either because most of these negroes could care less. I’m not a politician so I don’t need anyone to vote for me. You’re only saying that those people actually were black because the article said so. If I’d have said that you would’ve said I’m trying to make everyone black. So transparent.

7)I don’t give a damn if someone doesn’t believe in the prophecies of the Bible. The prophecies of the other religions are based on the worldwide worship of Nimrod and Semiramis
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...2-2955147-8546568?ie=UTF8
Those religions prophesy of a being coming back to save all nations. Christ is coming back to redeem Israel (Acts 1:6,7). What books have prophesied of blacks in slavery (Deut 28:68, Joel 3:1, etc.), the nuclear bomb (Rev 13:13, etc.), and WWIII (Ezek 38th chap., Joel 3:9-14, Rev 20:7,8, etc.)?

8)I’d be amazed if these “afrocentric authors are trying to bolster black pride with lies” since, I repeat, most of the authors are caucasians, lmao. You’re going to have to ask David Macritchie ( a racist caucasian) why he wrote in 1884 that the Scots, Danes, Normans, Celts, etc. were black, not me. LMAO
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books
You’re going to have to ask Joseph J. Williams and Allen H. Godbey (both caucasian)why they wrote in 1930 that the blacks brought to America spoke Hebrew and kept Israelite customs, not me. LOL.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...46568?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...2-2955147-8546568?ie=UTF8
As far as Sodom and Gomorrha, the scriptures are very clear. That first link is for what, to show me notable homos in history? Please. King James wasn’t a homosexual so the book is lying already. More B.S.
http://www.chick.com/reading/books/158/158_03.asp
Your second link shows me where you get alot of your B.S. from, LOL. Some fool that doesn’t know wtf he’s talking about. He lies and says that Paul absolved the Christians from purity laws when they had to abstain from blood (Acts 15:20 taken from Lev 17:10-14). Then he quotes Tit 1:15 out of context because when you read the scripture from verse 14 Paul is referring to keeping the commandments of God, lmao. If all the scriptures in the OT (Deut 23:17, I Kings 14:24, 15:12, 22:46) are not enough for you then Jude 1:7, in the NT, makes it very clear what the evil was in Sodom and Gomorrha (how pathetic that we’re still on this).

9)Those links for Constantine were hilarious. You should be a comedian. Especially the one with Raphael. HELLO, IS ANYBODY HOME?!!! You can see on the neckline where they sawed off the man’s head and just said that it was Constantine, LMAO. By the way, you have the same sculpture up there twice, just from a different angle. As for the painting by Raphael, the Renaissance painters and sculptors were paid to produce caucasian images of the great black men of the Bible and the Byzantine empire, alot like today. You probably believe that King David posed butt-naked for the statue Michelangelo created, huh? Or that the Mona Lisa was a woman? Lol. The Bible says that Christ was a negro and I can bring up a billion pictures of a white christ IF MY AGENDA IS TO PROMOTE WHITE SUPREMACY, lol. Do you know who was the model for the white image of Christ? A friend of Leonardo Da Vinci named Caesare Borgias: a satanist, murderer, rapist, and child molester, who married his sister.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesare_borgia
You still have to anwser this question as I’ve stated earlier. Who the hell is making all of these black busts, and statues and paintings that were contemporary to the time that the person lived. We already know that caucasians have a history of creating false busts, statues, and paintings (even resorting to chopping the noses or heads off of negro statues). So somebody’s lying. You have to inform me so that I don’t do anymore “disservices to black people”. Lol.

10)As for the Germanic tribes, this is getting old very quickly. Once again you have to take it up with these different caucasian authors and the relics. Keep in mind that if you cannot tell me where they migrated from and the meaning behind their names, you’re not qualified to claim to know their ethnological background. Here are pictures of notable germanic tribesman, first the whitewashed image and then the true image so that you can see the depth of the coverup. You be the judge (uh boy):
a)VERCINGETORIX
1)http://www.ac-creteil.fr/lettres/pedagogie/la/gaulois_romains/Images/vercingetorix_%5Bgallica%5D2.jpg
2) http://www.kernunnos.com/...arriors/vercingetorix.jpe
b)THE HUNS
http://www.dinosoria.com/tragedie/attila_010.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...Image:Checa-HunCharge.jpg
C)THE NORMAN KNIGHTS
http://www.immersiveeduca.../normans/normans2_465.jpg
http://images.amazon.com/...939222108.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
Somebody’s lying, lol. Where the hell are these images coming from if the “afrocentrists” are distorting history?

11)That was a good one. “A cop out”, lol. Any ancient coin website that you go on will tell you that many of them are not authentic. Many of the Byzantine icon frescoes were also purposefully altered. Like I said, that’s what the Renaissance was about. Once again, first the whitewashed image, then the “alternative” (lol)
A)Council of Nicea:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nicaea.jpg
http://www.dioms.org/council/nicea_council.jpg
B)St. Paul (in Acts 21:37-39 he was confused with an egyptian so where they get this white image from confuses me. Can you explain it PittBoi? Lol.)
http://www.tacentral.com/...cathedral/paullehatsi.jpg
http://www.bridgebuilding.com/images/nmpaux.jpg
(another true image of Paul found in Turkey)
http://www.allaboutturkey.com/pic/stpaul.jpg
C)Mary & Christ:
http://www.orthodoxchurch...ages/Icons/ChernigovC.jpg
http://www.russian-arts.c...s_images/icon_018_150.jpg
D)The Saints:
http://www.orthodoxintern...×6%20paper-$1.00.jpg
http://www.timkenmuseum.o...images2/russian-front.jpg
Damnit, somebody’s lying, lol.

12)Don’t take any pride in “standing up to people like me”. You’re just exposing yourself as a poseur. That gnosticism is just an amalgation of man’s philosophy with some misconstrued tenets of the Bible (Col 2:8, Heb 13:9, Eph 5:6, II Pet 2:18-22). In reality, you and people like you believe that you are your own god. That’s why you say that “God is in my heart” (Jer 17:9, Prov 16:25). Lol. You just hold the Bible next to you as an ornament. That’s it on that, hopefully.

i thought this post was suppose to be about patti….where did this debate come from?…

Judah

Nice post. One just as full of holes as it is long, but an interesting post, nonetheless. If you think you’ve argued me down, you’re sadly mistaken. I had several rebuttals before I even finished reading it. You really should check your facts, though. Because a lot of those books you posted, again, were already ripped apart by research before I ever got to them. And you’re supposed to tell me that is the truth? Not a good look for you,Judah.

Anyway, my response to this post is too long; it can’t be posted here. Is there somewhere else I can send it to you? Email perhaps.

I wonder how somebody’s MOTHER feels about the word hoe? She obviously was one and raised one, too…Just curious….

And it’s so funny that my name continues to be mentioned since I’m “only a female.” I’m not even imporant enought to respond to right? But thanks for the props by making a post that keeps coming back to me. It’s not surprising that a guy with a small, soft-batch cookie penis has so much time on his hands…

Judah,

What ever you do,…do NOT, I repeat, do NOT give that faggot pittbboi your email address!! hehe! He finally met his match when with your long response! He’s probably working on his essay! I guess judah wins the battle of the essays!

pittbboi,

You think you’re slick, trying to connect with judah by email! First, you get his email address and then you’ll want his home address where you can send something historical and the next thing he knows…this fool shows up at judah’s house with his mouth wide open! Beware judah!

GG Boo, oh excuse me, Mrs. GG Boo…why are you still here? You can’t seem to move on! How did you get like this? Do you attack “yo man” like this when he tries to tell you something? Please give him a message for me…”get out bro, before its too late”! “You’re sleeping with the damn enemy!” “It might be good, free pussy now, but you’ll pay dearly for this trick”.

I know it really hurts your feelings, but I’ve tried everything else to get you to go away! You must be Libra or Pisces! Clingy and always pissed! You have no clue about men! And, if you haven’t noticed you’re the only one facinated with my dick! Okay, I know pittbboi might be a little ‘nated too, but faggots avoid alpha males who’ll kick azz!

I thought pittbboi and GG Boo had moved on, but no! So, here is more for you to consider:

If a drug addict, alcoholic or molester came on to CL and said they were doing those things, I would go after them just I’m going after faggot boy! “Coming out of the closet” should be a request for help, not a request for acceptance!

pittbboi came out of the closet because you were tired of living a lie in shame. You were ashamed, because you knew what you were doing was filthy wrong!

Now, you want people to know about your problem and accept it! Hell naw! I am my brothers keeper, but not to sit and watch him burn! I don’t see lesbos coming on here all proud of their coochie sniffing! I don’t see alcoholics coming on here asking people to accept their sickness! I don’t see drug addicts coming on CL asking people to accept their mess…so why should we accept faggot boy?

Either clean up your act or go back to your closet. No one want to hear that sad commentary!

Mratloag - you’re still gay and all things you describe about me must be you too…You’re still gay your moms is still a ho just like her son and my man doesn’t take messages from soft-dick brainwashed niggas.

And you’re obviously not married either because no real woman would want a short-dick softie biggot who thinks he’s right and makes assumptions that are always wrong…You still haven’t explained why you described your penis to another man…i guess that answer is obvious…just wanted bill to know exactly how your meat loafs…

Keep talking about me - lets me know you’re paying attention boo! Why don’t you just ignore me? Let’s see if you can…nope I bet the next post will be all about me! Yayyy!

It’s really amazing to me that it’s 2006 and people still believe in the hogwash and superstition that is the bible. How ignorant can you get? Don’t you know that GOD spelled backward is DOG?

#363 Tiger

The Bible is only hogwash to people who don’t understand it! And, the superstition is on you! Stay true to your beliefs and let Christians have their beliefs. That’s only fair! You’re starting an argument that’s been fought a million times and no one changes!

GG Boo,

What is your problem? What happened to you? When did I talk about you? I never called you a hoe! I don’t even know you! My definition of a hoe is a woman sleeping with a man she’s not married too! Is that you? Do you sleep with friends? You say I’m making the assumption, but you never answer!

A one man hoe is no different than a hoe who sleeps around with lots of niggas! So, are you married? Or, are you a hoe? hehe!

let it go boo

Patti is krazy she needs to read her bible Drueing creation God Made Adame and Eve not EVE AND EVELYN ON ADAM AND STEVE.

Seriously this is just trash comin from someone who shoul know better. Gay practice is like living in sodom and gomarrah A city God destroyed!!!!!!!!!! I dont discriminate against gays but they r people who need spiritual help to get rid of this demaons

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