Music and Hip Hop should not be blamed for school shoots and rapes.

That is a whole other issue and discussion.

You can not blame someone listen to Too Short or Crime Mobb or Eminem or Ludacris on going out and raping someone, shooting someone or committing a crime. That has to do with personal issues and personal mentality as well as mental health issues and other problems.

Please lets not start blaming hip hop and the hip hop culture for all the ills of society and what’s wrong with the world.

on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 @ 2:23 pm

222. My Wordz said:
——————————————————————————–

@ Bill,.. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL i noticed that. i was wondering why you would take this man on a date.

he did state he was a man..lol thats funny

Bill Said:
I didn’t read the ENTIRE post..
*I missed the part where he said he was a man…
I swear !!!!!

I think I’m going to log off of concrete loop for a few days until this dies down….

Popular companies RARELY uses a white celebrity who gives the white race a bad name to endorse one of their products….50 cent gets in a shoot out, the next day he gets a deal with pepsi or some shit. Why? why? why?….

The white race is representing us as shit and we are eating the shit up and saying it tastes GREAT! Wake up people, wake up!

on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 @ 2:22 pm

221. Meatloaf said:
——————————————————————————–

Bill,

Ahhh Lawd….not Keshia Cole bearing all her goodies, too!!! I missed that one! lol!

Bill Said:

Kecia Cole was on the cover of VIBE magazine in August or September…
* I remember my and the wife were in Pathmark, and it was hot.
I was staring at Kecia Cole’s Breast, and my wife slapped me in the back of the head, REAL HARD !!!!

I agree with Imus all the way on this one.

CANDY you missed my point & I was just giving an example…However, I do blame NEGATIVE hip hop and other violent images, movies, video games etc. for the downfall of our youth..But speaking about the black community, I’m petty sure a young black male will relate to 50 Cent rather than Leo Dicaprio’s character from The Departed.

and I’m not talking about the average serial rapist or murder, I’m talking about the average person who took the worng path in life b/c they had no one to guide them (including society) in the right direction.

@ 218. JUDAH

i agree

@229-AYANNA Damn right! Divide and conquer hasn’t failed YT yet! That’s right. WAKE UP!
I will say this, I don’t care how cool I am with a YT person(s), I don’t ever get comfortable with them. That’s the problem with blacks today. Always thinking Gary/Becky is your friend. Only time YT flocks around negroes is when there is money involved! cha ching!

212. Candy

Just because Luda and others do charitable things doesn’t excuse what they do!! Lord have mercy! If a drug dealer built park for our kids to play in would you excuse him for his wrong doing simply cause he gave back to the community? I know the example is a bit far fetched, but things like this do happen. I’m only using Luda cause you did btw…I ‘m not being Bill O’Reilly. And to be honest alot of the rappers are doing these things cause it’s a subrooted way of taking responsibility without changing their habits cause it’ll affect their bottom line…MONEY!

And as for your comment about how reading fictional novels somehow compares to this situation was hilarious. We both know most youth are not getting these ideas from books. Nice try though.

No Bill…it’s a man and woman…both models not video harlots….don’t know what suppose to be going on but I love his back and his butt…..so I clipped the pic…I guess women too could objectify men….I’m guilty (hangs my head in shame)…not taking off the pic though

FISRT THEY BANNED BOOKS BECAUSE OF GHE SOCALLED BAD IDEAS NOW THEY WANT TO BAN MUSIC> I”M SORRY THAT IS NOT RIGHT YOU CAN”T BAN EVERYTHING ESPECIALLY IF IT IS A FORM OF EXPRESSION.

THE TERM BITCH AND WHORE AND NAPPY WERE ALL INVENTED BEFORE TRAP WAS EVEN CREATED.

202. redvelvet1 said:
——————————————————————————–

@ Samech, I see you used a quote from Langston Hughes, now that is some real poetry!!!

————————————————-

Thanks! He’s one of my favorite poets, along with Mutabarruka (Dis Poem)

This topic is on point and a little bit late in being addressed.

Although there’s clearly a racial element involved in this discussion, I think an unacknowledged point is pure economics (plus education which tends to go hand in hand). As I watched the Spelman College students express their concerns I applauded them. However, I believe that if you gathered a random group of African American economically disadvantaged, uneducated women of the same age bracket this would not be perceived as a problem. They would see no reason why this discussion would be relevant and in fact would probaly tell you “they ain’t talkin’ bout me”.

The fact of the matter is (as I believe Chris Rock alluded to in one of his stand up shows), I’ve been to many a club where women willingly dance to music that is truly degrading them but seem to believe that the songs aren’t referring to them.

Hip Hop lost me a long time ago. As I believe was mentioned on Oprah, at one point there was a diversity in hip hop that represented both the “enlightened” (poets as Russell Simmons might say) and those who expressed their more gritty, urban lives.

Unfortunately this diversity is pretty much non-existent today. The political messages of Public Enemy are overshadowed by the modern day minstrels of Snoop Dog and his ilk. There’s no beauty in 94% of the lyrics and there’s nothing to be gained by anyone listening to it.

It’s unfortunate and sad, but the fact that we’re just waking up to the issue is even sadder.

Attack the root cause: education, poverty, homelessness, lack of family values and we may be able to turn this around.

You know, as I was skating last night at a Brooklyn roller rink, I couldn’t help but notice the beautiful ranges of colors among my black people. I guess I had a moment of clarity. You see, I don’t go out anymore because I, for some reason, am always tense around too much black people. I always feel like a fight is going to break out. But last night, seeing men and women, skate together, I was like, I love my people, and I’m glad to be a black woman. We are a beautiful people. I just wish we could look first and think about that before we tear each other down. Before you call your “sistah” a ho, bitch, hoodrat, before we say to our black men, “nigga please,” we could just appreciate each other and how far we’ve come. I don’t care about rap or these video chicks. As I stated previously, I feel for the ones that came before us, the ones that took that ass whoopin, bit their tongue, held their heads down low, so WE wouldn’t have to. Like I said, Martin and Malcolm are turning in their graves.

@ 235. trinib , yep your guilty with that image! go sit in the corner

on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 @ 2:42 pm

235. trinib said:
——————————————————————————–

No Bill…it’s a man and woman…both models not video harlots….don’t know what suppose to be going on but I love his back and his butt…..so I clipped the pic…I guess women too could objectify men….I’m guilty (hangs my head in shame)…not taking off the pic though

Bill Said:
I was just asking…
no comdemnation on my part..
You do YOU

trini…omg high 5 to you for that pic. His BACK IS AMAZING. I love a toned black mans back, it does something to my blood. lol

lol @ seabreeze being @ king skate.

Girl I’m gonna miss Empire Roller rink. YT is kicking us out again.

Thank U Concreteloop for posting this topic!!! !!!!!!! I sincerly hope it gets more conversation than Beyonce’s hair/skin/life etc.

This show was way over due but very welcomed and appreciated.

Russell Simmons—Please stop calling Snoop Doggie Dog and the like poets. He is not. He is a pimp and he is in it for the money, not the art. Get over it.

Kevin Liles—-You are offended? You are offended?
You are funny. Bo, this was not about YOU!!!!!
U made an ask of yourself on national T.V. …Go home.

kind.

@234 - You are missing the point.

Both the books and the music is part of the so-called “hip hop culture”. So how is it that the music is a problem because it’s demoralizes, dogs and degrades women but the books that do the same thing is glorified and on the best seller list.

The argument is flawed. You can’t just look at one aspect of the culture that people believe to be a problem. I.E. music and not look at the whole thing.

That’s my point.

As to the artist doing charitable works - hmm, here’s my take on it - Luda’s music has changed and come a long way since the beginning. Is he conscious and good and “nicey nice” in his raps? No. He’s real and reflecting on his experiences and background.

Again the point is that you can’t overlook the good and just focus on the bad and say well the good doesn’t matter. That’s being one-dimensional and only looking at one aspect or view of things. You have to widen the camera angle and do a wide shot not just a close up.

We did an experiment in one of my college classes and took a video camera and a regular camera. We took pictures and video of one scripted scene/area where the focus was on the negative and dirty/grimy part, the other picture/video was on the good, positive aspects and the third was on the whole scene. The comments and feedback from the focus group was amazing on just the preconceived notions, prejudices and views. It has to do with people’s perception and histories on how they react or view certain things. That’s just one minor example.

The problem is racism and prejudice and discrimination and it’s long history in the US. As well as how negative american’s and america’s view of sex is. Sex and sexuality is taught as being naughty and dirty.

This problem/situation isn’t going to be solved overnight and it didn’t start with hip hop.

Again some of the rappers have changed but people are focusing on the past and not the present necessarily and not seeing the full, big picture.

That’s my other point.

But as with anything - I respect the way you say your piece as well as your opinion but we’ll have to agree to disagree on this I guess.

I apologize for getting off the subject a tad also.

yes, some of the lyrics in songs are rude, ignorant, and vulgar. yes, women are portrayed in many hip hop videos as scantily clad, booty poppin, vixens. why are people so offended. i am a black woman and am not. i don’t get pissed off when i hear bitch, or ho in songs. why should i? the artists don’t know me so they can’t be referring to me. as for particular women they may be describing in some of those instances, all i can say is if the shoe fit…
it made me angry that those spelman students kept going on and on about what they as hip hop artist and pioneers were going to do. they are not 100% responsible. nobody holds a gun to any of those womens’ heads who choose to be video models. why should they not be held accountable for partaking in the so called “demeaning of women” nobody brought that up.
and as far as mr. imus goes, whatever. he’s a racist.
and i can’t believe with all of those older people on that panel that nobody bothered to point out that white people have been calling black women “Nappy Headed Wenches” since they brought us over here. Now that’s real talk.

I agree with Lisa I remember they use to ban books because of the material. Harry Potter is still banned in some communities. I don’t think it is right to ban someone form of expression no matter how much you don’t like it the first amendment gives us a right to have free speech. Sorry but everything is NOT sunshine daisies if that was the case we would live in a robotic and perfect world.

smh that’s a damn shame.
I’ve had a lot of fun with no worries skating there, when you said what you said all I could do is smile.

Also - I didn’t say that the youth was getting their ideas from books.

But if the music is a part of the problem so is the book because it affects the mentality and is inudated in society.

So how can one aspect of the culture be a problem but the other isn’t?

Just something to Think About…

How are rap lyrics any more to blame or more demaning than the nonsensical shows like Flavor of Love, I love NY, Real world, College Hill - even some of Nick Cannon’s stereotypical skits ….

And if you are going to have a panel on the subject, where was the “Baddest Bitch”, the “Queen Bitch”, “Head Bitches in Charges”, “bitbull [dog] in heels” and mami with the Ill Na Na

To suggest that women rappers and coochie girl video vixens bear no responsibility in this denigration is wrong.

Oprah and her guest on part 1 of the so called”Town hall meeting” were being so hypocritical! How can you sit and praise a actor who uses the words bitch and hoe in their movies but when a rapper uses the words its an asault on black women?? Its all entertainment and if you dont like it when the rappers do it, then dont turn around and support it with an oscar nomination when a actor(some even are white like her beloved John Travolta) use it! Now no one is even thinking about what the whole issue was in the first place……….. RACISM

in additon, from the previous days discussion, i was beyond appalled that the woman suggested that rappers lose their contracts. hip hop is an arena that gainfully employs so many people, most importantly us. how dare she even imply that someones well being be taken away from them? it makes me sad that the attention was somehow focused on hip hop, after don imus made those tasteless, ridiculous comments. it makes me even sadder that older black people who should know better jumped on the bandwagon to attack hip hop and really show the world how divided we are as a people.

thank you 248 - you said it perfectly.

And btw - I’m not advocating banning books. I’m just saying that you can’t point to one area as a problem while praising another. You have to look at everything, the whole thing not just what offends or upsets you, not just what you disagree with.

If you (general/universal you here) are going to say that hip hop is a problem or the cause of the problem and that the hip hop culture/mentality is to be blamed then it would behoove us as a people to make changes and address the whole thing not just the music.

One Black person should not have to represent an entire group of Black people, the Video girls do not represent me or many females I know. Whites don’t get offended by Britney and PAris acting a fool. WHy? BEcause they don’t represent EVERY White female. Black get offended because there are not a whole lot of POSITIVE representation of us in the media that’s why.BUT as I said before I should not try to be a positive Black woman for the sake of Black people, but I should try to be the BEST ME I can be.

MOvies Books, Poetry All have vulgarity in them and it would be ludicorus if we banned them all.

The Bluest Eye anbd The color purple were both banned because of the language and sexuality. My Grandmother called the Temptations and Marvin Gaye Devil’s music.

I don’t think that hip hop should be blame for people stupid’s actions. Hip-hop does not tell people to kill innocent people and call innocent basketball players hoes. And even if hip hop did invent the word “hoe”, Imus is a grown ass man and should not let “hip-hop” influence him to pick on innocent girls.

218. JUDAH said:
——————————————————————————–

As far as the things that black men say in rap music, what comes out of those brothers is reflective of what has been put in. No one on the planet earth is more maligned and castigated than the black man. Not the black woman, no one. So if these brothers are told from infancy to adulthood that “they ain’t shit, ain’t never gonna be shit”, “you’re stupid, you’re ugly”, “you’re too dark, you’re too light”, do you think that these brothers are going to make uplifting music? Then many of these brothers note the difference in how they get treated by black women after they make it big as opposed to before and it stands out as fake. Only a prostitute or “ho” will change her conduct towards you based on how much money a man has. Those brothers put 2 and 2 together. It doesn’t make it right but it is real.

………………………………………………

Judah I disagree with what you posted. I constantly hear people use the argument that if people are constantly told they ain’t shit, ugly and so forth
that this somehow legetimizes the anger in black men. I say this is a cop out.

As a black man who grew up in the ghetto I’ve been told those things by MY OWN PEOPLE, FAMILY INCLUDED. Are you trying to say that whites are constantly bombarding us with these images and or admitting that it is our own people’s jealousy and greed that is corrupting the core of our communities? Which is it cause everything you said I’ve honestly gotten from us rather than them.

^^^^very good point KMNILES

253. cocoacuban said:

in additon, from the previous days discussion, i was beyond appalled that the woman suggested that rappers lose their contracts. hip hop is an arena that gainfully employs so many people, most importantly us. how dare she even imply that someones well being be taken away from them? it makes me sad that the attention was somehow focused on hip hop, after don imus made those tasteless, ridiculous comments. it makes me even sadder that older black people who should know better jumped on the bandwagon to attack hip hop and really show the world how divided we are as a people.

______________________________________________

THANK YOU! LAWD HAVE MERCY! Pat yourself on the back, finally, somebody voices the same exact frustration I had with that “town hall meeting”! I just so sad at how biased they were!

ALl BLack People are different though, you can’t expect all Blacks to agree on the issue. There is diversity within the BLack community and YOU ALL should Know that NOT ALL BLACKS ARE THE SAME.

@191….”Greedy and attention seeking women are mostly responsible for how black women are depicted in this country and around the world”

Let’s play a game. (Lazy, Drug selling, uneducated, don’t wanna take care of their kids, Still living with their mama, always going to jail Black men)
are mostly responsible for how black Men are depicted in this country and around the world”

How does that feel? Snug on the other foot?
If a white man said this, Black Men would be up in arms and ready to fight. ANd rightly so. The few do not reflect the souls of the many.

Kind.

246. Candy

Thanks for the response. I was trying to make the point that most of our young people are not reading books, therefore books are not the bigger issue. I didn’t mean to say that they are excluded from the problem.

And you are correct that sex is depicted as naughty and dirty, but in today’s hip-hop music culture it’s ALWAYS depicted that way.

@ 253 & 259 - I agree.

How is destroying these men’s, women’s livelihoods, careers and jobs throughout hip hop not just the artist but the record execs, a&r people, publicists, etc….going to solve anything except create a bigger problem of homelessness, bankruptcy filings and unemployment rates going up.

That is not the solution to this. And truthfully, I don’t know what is.

Didn’t the Departed win best Picture and wasn’t KIll BIll really Popular? So I agree with everyone who said that they can’t just focus on one thing if they are going to do that they might as well make a stand against ART in general, Which is a shame because some of the best MOVIES BOOKS AND MUSIC have Vulgarity in it.

@256-ALISHA whites don’t have to feel offended because they were never made to feel so. Hell they are the ones in control of all of this. They are individuals while we have always been looked upon as a whole.I don’t get why some people (no disrespect to you) don’t get it. Let me use an example, do you ever notice, media wise, when the difference between a black man committing a crime and a white man commiting a crime? The black man’s face is plastered on the front of every paper, blown up on the tv screen to leave the imprint of his face in your mind and continue to place fear in others that ALL black men are criminals. SMH

Please people stop acting like YT looks at us as their equal! My goodness, you can’t be that naive.

Thanks KMNILES - I understand.

The teens I know do read but not the street fiction, or at least that’s not there only source of reading material.

They don’t devour books as I did when I was younger and still do. And yes I admit I do listen to rap/hip hop and have read some of the books. But the books that bother me I return and the CDs that bother me I either give away or don’t play.

220. Decysive, we have a hip-hip communication problem!
—————————————————-

Are you saying the Spelman women don’t do community services?

—————————————————–

Why do you call them those Spelman “chicks” and then refer to the Rutger “women”? I get your drift! lol!! It may be a habit, but you and Imus sure have a way with discriptors!

————————————————–
??????

“However, they are defending who allowed herself to be sexually objectified. The fact that the female was a willing participant in the act NULLIFIES their whole argument.”

Okay, I think I know what you mean here! So, do you just wash your hands of the whole matter when the female is a willing participant? What does a crackhead, a poor person and a dog all have in common?
They’ll all turn tricks for a bone! You don’t nullify the argument just because Da Brat pays a crackhead to strip and appear in one of her videos!

You still go after the rappers for exploiting young weak people and people hooked on drugs! Black people teach their children, but peer pressure and dollars signs are lithal when you’ve been conditioned all your life!

You seem to have personal insight and beef with the Spelman women for not doing anything but show up on Oprah! Either state your case or move on from from “neighborhoods surrounding the HBCU’S” stans, because most black colleges are in the hood! And, any other college would have welcomed Nelly with open arms!!!!

I applaud you for doing community service, but I’d rather see students with that piece of paper in their hand more than anything else at this time! Let them serve in their own way!

256-ALISHA whites don’t have to feel offended because they were never made to feel so. Hell they are the ones in control of all of this. They are individuals while we have always been looked upon as a whole.I don’t get why some people (no disrespect to you) don’t get it. Let me use an example, do you ever notice, media wise, when the difference between a black man committing a crime and a white man commiting a crime? The black man’s face is plastered on the front of every paper, blown up on the tv screen to leave the imprint of his face in your mind and continue to place fear in others that ALL black men are criminals. SMH

UMM NO OFFENSE TO YOU BUT I JUST SAID THE SAME THING IF YOU READ WHAT I SAID , I SIAD THERE ARE DIFFERENT MEDIA REPRESENTATION OF BLACKS A DISPROPORTIONATE> BUT WE SHOULD NOT BE LOOKED AT AS A WHOLE—THAT IS THE PROBLEM>

#218 Judah said:

If black people want to address how we’re perceived and how we perceive and treat each other than attack the source, not the product. Hip hop, like all music, is a form of expression. How the hell can you tell someone how they “should feel”. That’s ridiculous.

—————————————
I understand where you’re coming from and I agree. The problem is far bigger than rappers.

It’s not about blaming everything on HIPHOP, but it would be a LIE to say that HIPHOP is not part of the problem of the perpetration of stereotypes THAT ARE KILLING US! We could all talk about pornography, it is not shown on BET and MTV all day long. White women are not called bitches and hoes in every radio stations and at the mall, white men are not called pimps and thugs on radios, tv and in the clubs everywhere, everyday, all day.

This is entering subconsciously in EVERY OTHER COMMUNITY’s minds (not just whites anymore) that we are bitches and pimps, that we are hoes and male hoes and thugs, because the “brainwashing” is constant from morning to evening, we hear it and see it, even when we try to escape it it is right in front of us! Poverty is an excuse. BILL COSBY and CHRIS GARDNER (Puirsuit of happyness) were very poor but they DIDNT GET BY BY CALLING THEIR COMMUNITY NIGGAS PIMPS BITCHES AND HOES. Lauryn Hill didn’t sell 20 million copies of Miseducation by degrading black people. Instead of trying to find solutions, we spend our time trying to find excuses, pointing fingers at everyone but ourselves, and we’re surprise?

One black shouldn’t represent everyone, but it doesn’t work that way for minorities. For one Paris Hilton, you’ll have thousands of respectable images of white women. How many respectable black men and women do you see on BET and MTV? When people see and hear the same thing over and over they start believing it. That’s what the process of brainwashing is all about. We don’t own those medias. So we need to be SMARTER!

Speaking of owning, you wanna blame white Sony and Universal? Do you know how many millions Russell Simmons, 50 cent, Puff Daddy, Jay-Z, Kevin Liles and so on are SITTING ON as we type? Do you know that they could start their own black owned Universal putting money together? I said it before, they don’t change cause they don’t wanna change. We don’t act as a “community”, it’s every man for himself.

You wanna blame it on slavery? Okay. You wanna blame the man? Okay. “The Man” and “Slavery” didn’t stop Will Smith, Spike Lee, Alicia Keys and Oprah. So now my question is, how long are we going to keep singing this song? Black men have been depicted as dangerous beasts since slavery and sisters have been considered rapable hoes since slavery, but when are we going to decide it’s time to BREAK THE CYCLE?

And how can we break the cycle if WE BLACKS PERPETRATE THE VERY STEREOTYPES that are poisoning US?

@270-ALISHA—My bad.

#271…Umm I for one do not watch MTV or BET so I see a lot of positive role models of Blacks in the Community and the Media in general.

I do agree that BLack people are diverse and should be seen as individuals and not as a whole.

Books and many movies have vulgarity in it, The Godfather has the N word in it and lots of violence and is considered one of the greatest films of all time.

The Children’s book “Chronicles of Narnia” has the word “Darkies” in it and is considered a classic. (Funny they try and Ban Harry Potter because of so-called magic spells, but not Narnia which has a derogatory term in it?).Anyway I don’t believe in banning music , books or movies because they are a form of art and like JUdah said You can’t tell someone how they SHOULD feel.

I thought those 2 days were a waste of air time. Why?
Because I didn’t appreciate Snoop Dogg, Nelly, Ludacris, 50 Cent, or Eminem not being brought to the table. If you want to address this issue why not have the artists up there that you want to call out? These are grown men who can very well speak up and defend themselves, that is I know this was pure bullshit!

Like Russell pointed out, he hasn’t signed an act in 10 years. He sold Def Jam years ago. So I don’t even know why he was there. Kevin Liles just has a title. Ben Chavis just talks, and Common is a positive force that can only speak for himself. He never fell into that category, so why was he there.

As a college graduate, I understand this piece of paper don’t mean a damn thing to no one else but me. The only paper that matters in this country is green.

If Oprah was so appalled by hip hop, she could have been had this show. She’s a puppet to her producers and she gets on my nerves with her fake ass concern.

We can continue to be jaded by living out our dreams, etc. but shit happens and life goes on and you never know what you would do for a buck or to maintain or obtain a certain lifestyle.

@ 258

Where in my post did I specify who it is that is bringing the negative bombardment? Where did I say that whites are ones saying these things? The black community carries on the negativity that was placed in it from the time that we were brought into this captivity. How come it’s a cop out when it comes to black men but for no one else? If that’s the case, I don’t want to hear anyone complain about anything because remember, this is America. We all love each other. I don’t want to hear about racism of any kind, anti-semitism, homophobia, or “nappy headed hoeism” because everyone should ignore it, stop making excuses, and rise above it.

In any environment you will have superlative individuals that will rise above any situation they’re placed in. Just like you will have “privileged” people that become degenerates. What I’m talking about is the C student. The A student will almost always succeed and the F student will almost always fail. The C student can become an A or F student depending on the teacher, classroom, and curriculum. The C student far outnumbers anyone else so those are the ones that are the subject of discussion. You or I cannot compare what we were able to do with the average person because the Most High gives everyone a different level of insight.

Amongst black people are a group that I call “closet coons”. Those are negroes that put up a real good front that they give a damn about black people. They always have some grand “educational” or “voting” reform that’s going to save black people, lol. When asked to expound on their plan they get defensive because it involves fantasy and there’s no precedent for it’s success. They will then reflexively protect caucasians (even if whites were never brought up, lol) at all costs with knee jerk, mind control responses. “We have to look at ourselves”, “we can’t play the race card”, we can’t counter ‘hate’ with ‘hate’”, “Color don’t matter”, “what did Dr. King say brother?”, “God don’t hate”, etc., etc. Those are the same type of black people that the white man puts in prominent leadership positions because he knows that they can be bought and will mislead the average person, who is sheep regardless of color. One of the key attributes of the average closet coon is that they attack you for “seeming” to attack caucasians in any way, shape, or form even when one makes a banal statement.

YOU KNOW WHAT I CAN’T BELIEVE!?….

OPRAH HAD A SHOW ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHINING, CRYING WHITE WOMEN…..

HELL HAS OFFICIALLY FROZEN OVER!

Forget “Dumb” Imus…can we just have a summit on how Common came to be so fine?

@257 not 258

@274…^^^”Because I didn’t appreciate Snoop Dogg, Nelly, Ludacris, 50 Cent, or Eminem not being brought to the table”…(naw u know they scared!)

I feel you. But Oprah at least got it started. Everything would have been focused on the rappers when actually THEY ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES TO BLAME.

2 me the focus was to much on getting an apology.
Damn and apology, RESPECT ME!
We don’t need them to understand what they did was wrong. We know they are wrong. BECAUSE WE LET THEM DO IT.

But now we are grown, trying 2 raise kids and we are not having it. Or are we?

We need to stop expecting black men to heal us.
WE NEED TO STOP ON THE DANCE FLOOR, WE need to CALL MTV/BET and radio stations, Corporations, etc Until they LEARN how to express themselves without degrading US. I’m not trying to see them unemployed,
but they need to play nice or not at all.

They respect white women, why not us.

kind
(pl excuse any errors, I’M Pissed)

And another thing, Oprah is just exploiting this whole situation for ratings. when you are discussing issues you dont just bring people to the table that you deem acceptable like common, bring in the people that you are talking about like snoop dogg and nelly so they can defend themselves. Im sure she invited don imus but i can gaurantee you there was no invite sent out to snoop, nelly 50,etc…When rappers use these terms they are not putting all black wome in the class of bitches and hoes. If you listen to what they’re saying its talking about women that they have come into contact with that carry themselves as bitches and hoes, and sometimes they’re not even talking about women. They also refer to men as bitches and hoes. So when is Oprah going to have her town hall meeting on the movie industry and attack them for their degrading of women in films? Is there going to be a panel of movie production executives to be held accountable for hiring theses actors?? Will they ask them not to hire actors because they use bitches and hoes in their scripts??? Give me a break, the answer is NO because thats not what her white audience wants to see and doing that would take money out of her pocket. If you dont like hip hop then dont buy it, but dont blame it as the root of sexism or let a racist old white man use it as a scape goat to take attention off of himself.

meeyow I AGREE 10,000%
HE JUST LOOKS SOOOOO FREAKING GOOD. HE IS A BEAUTIFUL BLACK MAN.

220. Decysive, we have a hip-hip communication problem!
—————————————————-
Yup, I noticed, especially with you assuming what my personal feelings are.
____________________________________
Are you saying the Spelman women don’t do community services?

—————————————————–
No. And I don’t recall saying anything of the sort.

_____________________________________________
Why do you call them those Spelman “chicks” and then refer to the Rutger “women”? I get your drift! lol!! It may be a habit, but you and Imus sure have a way with discriptors!
________________________________________________

Wow, another unwarranted, disgusting comparison between me and Imus! I had no idea that street slang could be the same thing as calling someone a nappy headed hoe.
I apologize if you were offended.
————————————————–
Okay, I think I know what you mean here! So, do you just wash your hands of the whole matter when the female is a willing participant? What does a crackhead, a poor person and a dog all have in common?
They’ll all turn tricks for a bone! You don’t nullify the argument just because Da Brat pays a crackhead to strip and appear in one of her videos!
________________________________________
You think you know what I mean? If I didn’t type it, I obivously don’t mean that. I think you get what you want me to mean. I can’t go to bat for anyone who lets someone slide a credit card down her backside and doesn’t see a problem with that. I can try to get her to understand that she had been exploited and see why it’s wrong. I can say that I won’t support the rapper anymore, but there’s not much I can do for her until she comes that realization for herself. I can got to bat for women who were called nappy headed ho’s because some white guy didn’t like the fact that they were covered in tattoos.
_________________________________________________

You still go after the rappers for exploiting young weak people and people hooked on drugs! Black people teach their children, but peer pressure and dollars signs are lithal when you’ve been conditioned all your life!
____________________________________________________

If we got rid of rap altogether, DRUGS WOULD STILL EXIST. You can watch a movie or television to witness drug use. Which is why I say that rap is not solely responsible for the ills of society. “Peer Pressure” will always exist. People have the right to choose between what detrimental to their growth and what’s beneficial to it. We should punish rappers for glorifying such a sinful lifestyle but how to propose we go about doing that?

_________________________________________

You seem to have personal insight and beef with the Spelman women for not doing anything but show up on Oprah!
______________________________________________

What? Having a difference in opinion is a personal beef? I have respect for people who don’t share the same opinion as me. I feel like the problem goes deeper than Hip Hop and we all could participate in the solution.
The fact still remains that I see nothing wrong with asking sisters at Spelman to be as equally intrested in mentoring youth in surrounding communities as much as they are intrested in their initative against violence and sexism in rap.

Why do you assume that I have a beef with them? All Black people don’t share the same brain so we are bound to think differently.
_____________________________________________

Either state your case or move on from from “neighborhoods surrounding the HBCU’S” stans, because most black colleges are in the hood! And, any other college would have welcomed Nelly with open arms!!!!
___________________________________________________

Why would I move on from educating my people? I would be no different from those who acknowledge the problem but refuse to participate in the solution, which achieves nothing. And what’s the point in continually bringing up Nelly?

___________________________________________

I applaud you for doing community service, but I’d rather see students with that piece of paper in their hand more than anything else at this time! Let them serve in their own way!
__________________________________________________

Your opinion and I respect it.

HELENA,I don’t believe in banning anything either, I just think blacks need to be aware that until they change their ways (not feeding into the stereotypes) things are only gonna get worse. I don’t expect black folk to be perfect, but when you have the option not to sign a contract that portrays you as a clown, use that power, there are other ways of making it. Quincy Jones’ mom used to fry rats in winter to feed her kids, he made it with dignity. Only the gangsta part of hiphop is mainstream and no matter how much we love to embrace our individuality we’re still part of the black community and this affects us all as blacks, not just “the bitches and pimps they’re talking about”. That’s just my POV.

Word #280! I totally feel you and truth be told, I think this is more about balance than anything else. I’ve turned off the radio YEARS ago and I barely watch BET/MTV. As their music is so one-sided (cornball beats/catchy lyrics vs. substance). I’m more inclined to use word of mouth from friends or the internet to find new music. Lastly, these record labels are only pushing this kind of music, because that’s what the public is desiring. Without the demand, there can be no supply. Pure and simple. Quite frankly, If I want to listen to misogynistic music then again, that’s my prerogative, but I’m not going to be naive and say that music is the source of society’s ills.

#218 Judah said:

If black people want to address how we’re perceived and how we perceive and treat each other than attack the source, not the product. Hip hop, like all music, is a form of expression. How the hell can you tell someone how they “should feel”. That’s ridiculous.
————-

Thats like taking a gun to my head and forcing to believe something.I totally agree with you.

I can understand Russell Simmons calling them poets, what would you call them,nobodies?They expressing their feelings.There is nothing wrong with that.Its bad enough that many rappers grew up in tough neighborhoods and get bashed.And we sitting here today bashing them.They gonna keep doing what they do.Thats what people do all the time,when someone says you can’t do it, they gonna do it.

Black women need to stop being money hungry! Stop fucking for cash. get a damn job! Its too many hoes running around.

Richard Jones, I couldn’t agree with you more.

OPRAH DOESN’T GIVE A SHIT. SHE IS JUST DOING THIS FOR RATINGS.
IF SHE REALLY CARED ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE, SHE WOULD HAVE TAKEN SOME OF THAT 40 MILLION THAT SHE THREW AWAY IN AFRICA AND DONE SOMETHING FOR HER OWN PEOPLE OVER HERE.

AS FOR AS I AM CONCERNED OPRAH CAN’T TELL ME A DAMN THING ABOUT BLACK ISSUES, SHE STOPPED BEING BLACK 10 YEARS AGO AND

NEXT WEEK SHE WILL BE BACK TO WHINING, CRYING, SNIFLING WHITE WOMEN SHOWS AGAIN.

Forget “Dumb” Imus…can we have a summit on how Common came to be so fine?

we as black people need to stop using slavery as an excuse for everything….It’s done we are free now it’s time to for us to take responsibility for ourselves….otherwise we will continue to live in and breed ignorance…..BLACK PEOPLE WAKE UP AND STOP BLAMING EVERYBODY ELSE FOR YOUR FUCK UPS……STOP FOCUSING ON MONEY, CARS AND CLOTHES AND START TO FOCUS ON FAMILY, EDUCATION AND THE CREATION AND PRESERVATION OF WEALTH…BECAUSE LIKE THEY SAY IF YOU KNOW BETTER YOU WILL DO BETTER…..

Wow I must say that I spent more time reading within this forum today than I have any other forum on Concreteloop. Its a great issue to discuss and its been rather inetersting to read all of the replys to this topic . I would list all of the replys I enjoyed most reading but there are too many so Ill say this. Its good to know that we can come together and express/share views on something very relevant to our people as a whole. I enjoy discussing whats going on in enetrtainment but every so often you need that dose of real important current events.

I missed Part 1 of the Oprah Town meeting but I had an opportunity to see partb 2 yesterday after work.
I notice that a few folks within this forum took issue with Oprah airing the black community’s “dirty laundry” !
NEWSFLASH: The black communities business as it pertains to hiphop music is no longer “OUR BUSINESS” simply because it has become so huge and profitabvle that it has taken on a life of its own. Black folks are no longer the only fans on hiphop. People from many race,ethnic backgrounds, socio economic groups, etc make up a diverse array of listeners . They all hear and are in some way effected by the lyrical content. When you make songs for the world to hear than your message is on full display!

Secondly Russel Simmons and Kevin Liles Def jam exec’s p*ssy footed around the issue, like most rappers when confronted about their lyrical content and the responsibility that they as artist have . They were babbling on and on , mouth flappign and moving but saying nothing to really address the role that they themselves play . However I cant say that Im shocked because Russel and Kevin arent going to speak out against something taht they themselves have profited greatly from,lol! Speaking out too strongly would make them look like hypocrites to the hip hop community and very artist that they represent. They have made millions and then some off the very art form .music (however you personally view it) and counting.
I thought that Russell had a lot of nerve talking about”the hiphop community” has done more for race relations than any civil rights leader!Was that mofo smoking dat shyt,lol before he arrived at the show?
Just because buying,rapping along to rap music, rocking urban gear, and trying to lean with it rock with it, doesnt mean that rappers have done more than Malcom X , Martin Luther King and any other great leader! he better get a history book !

AND what the hell was Kevin Liles getting so beady eyed and souped up about , when the guy in the audience wasnt even directing the comment at HIM ,when he said clowns, but at the rappers who act like clowns for real. I guess that it was his way oagain diverting the attention away from fact that he wasnt really addressign shyt with his tired answers.

I think that Common is a great rapper and also a good example of how you can express yourself without disrepecting black women,etc ,but Im confused as to why he was the only rapper in attendance!
Oprah should have had some of the rappers who lyrics sheclaims to detest so that we could hear what they have to say about this issue. It would have been more interesting and well rounded discussion wise.

Ps I love all that Oprah has accomplished and I think that she is an awesome example of someone who has worked hard , to overcome personal and professional obstacles to acheive excellence within and even outside her profession. Whether you likeor dislike er ya have to give the woman some credit! Shes done more for people (all, including black community) than most of her biggest critics. I did not however agree with the way that she cut teh school teacher off.I think that the teacher raised valid points also and should have been allowed to finish her thought without being rudely told” I GET IT I GET IT”! That wasnt cool Oprah!
The young ladies from Spelman expressed themselves with poise, intelligence and class. They were a good example of how you can step outside the “anythinggoes’ box and have the integrity to stand for something , as opposed to fallign for anything.
I was alil surprised that Ben Chavis didnt have more to say aboutthe issue,and that he seemed to be mostly on Russel and Kevin Liles side than anything but I guess that some politicians are trying to work with the hip hop commuinity given its popularity.
In closing I will say this:) It really has to take an effort on the parts of everyone involved to change this problem.Im not really for censorship but artist have to have a greater amount of responsibility for what they put out, as do gthe record label execs and the women who allow themselves to be exploited and disrespected, as well as the parents who must assume responsibility for what they allow their children to hear and see in their homes, as well as the consumer who hands over their money in a show of support for this type of musie. In doing so you will challenge the rappers to think outside the box and come up with more creative,less degrading ways of expressing themselves or .

lol@ How Imus turn the tables on black people..lol Crackers are good at doing that eh? I see them working thier action right here on this very thread ..just funny lol

I saw both parts. I love Al Sharpton, the guy is so dead on. The women on the panel were great except for Oprahs therapist. Russell Simmons appeared to be taking up for the language and objectification of women by these male rappers.

Russell has matured some, but Russell also used to refer to women as bitches and ho’s himself. He was even on tape “The Show”….same one with jay-z punching a woman in the head after battle rapping with DMX.

286. just a thought said:
——————————————————————————–

Black women need to stop being money hungry! Stop fucking for cash. get a damn job! Its too many hoes running around.
———

hmmm….brothers need to stop paying cash for a fuck, and keep a job !

I agree too many whores, male and female.

wow the number has almost reached 300.. thanks Angel great post!

First of all, this is not a “all or nothing” issue! Some of you have a utopian stans of what you think the hip-hop culture and even what you think the black community should represent! It will never reflect your ideal! Hopefully, you won’t waste too much of your life being frustrated, before you realize that it is only history repeating itself!

The lure of sex and violence is the common bond that hip-hopsters and poor communities share! If you’re not after sex or the hype of violence, the hood is a pretty boring place! That’s just the way it is!

Poor people and low-lifed people steal, rob and beg! Some are poor because their black face and nappy hair prevented them from getting what they felt they deserved! No excuses for them, but they gave up!!! Sometimes, it was discrimination and other times, it was just a lack of motivation, which can also be the by-product of discrimination! But, no excuses!

As soon as someone comes along and offer them dollars to do anything, anything, I mean anything…they’ll jump! They don’t care who gets hurt or how much shame is involved!

We get embarrased when they shake their butts on the rap videos, but we’ll sit and watch three gay black men go on Jerry Springer and act a fool! Cross dressing and the whole nine yards! Its not the perpetration of stereotypes thats killing us! Its AIDs and gang violence that killing us!

White women, asians and mexicans dance in videhoes too! But, the stereotype is with blacks, because anything we do…we become or we walk away! Trust me, if the black rappers weren’t so good at it, there are plenty of whites who would love to take Snoop and Lil Mo’s place!

What TV station or clubs calls black men pimps and thugs all day. I’ve never seen that stans! Bill Cosby played the role of pimp and thug all through out his career! By the end of his career, he became a full-fledged pervert! Bill and Chris weren’t any poorer than anyone else! And, Lauryn Hill did some pretty degrading stuff with the Marley boys!

Are entertainers the only people who overcame in your world? Spike Lee, Oprah and Will! Why is it all about celebrities? I didn’t hear anyone singing that sad song until Imus came out and took it to the bridge! The only pimp and ho images I see are right here on CL!

I make no excuse for anyone, but I’ve seen the lasting effects of poverty and enslavement! It’s just the nature of the beast, if we were the majority race, the negative images would be on the whites! Every race comes to America with the same negative images of blacks! That stereotype was planted by the white media long before the rappers got their millions! Now, we want them to pay to fix it! They can’t!

And, the way to break any negative cycle is this:

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

I can’t believe the producers of the show did not step in and try to put a stop to this before it escaladed to the point of no control! The moment arguing started to get out of hand someone from production should’ve come and put a stop to this!

At least on the Real World the production staff cares enough about the kid’s well-being to keep this type thing from happening. BET, on the other hand, was trying to catch every moment of it on tape! The moment ratings become more important than the safety of the participants on the show, you have a serious problem on your hands!

^^^ oops wrong post, lol… my bad!!!

the whole they’re were talking just like the girls at spell man said they were talkin aroind the issue and not tryin to get to the point…..I think the reason they didnt answer in what I think was a truthful manner was b/c they know that theire livelihood depends on the smut we call mainstrean hip hop….I listen to common a lot and he has a lot of positive messages in his music but the bad out wigh the good and just as parents have a responsibility to their kids to teach them right and wrong rappers and leaders in the hip hop community need to stop signing artist
but I’m not gonna front I do listen to rap music but at times its hard to listen cuz I get tired of hearin the bitches and hoes and all the other things said to degrade women

ALL THE DISCUSSION IN THE WORLD IS NOT GOING TO GET RID OF THE WHITE BIG WIGS WHO HAVE THE POWER TO PLACE THE RECORDS ON THE RADIO AND IN THE PUBLIC.

WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR OWN STUFF, THATS WHEN WE CAN ENSURE THE COONERY WILL CEASE.

RUSSELL HAS THE POWER..AND A HANDFUL OF OTHERS..LETS SEE WHAT MUSIC COMES OUT HIS CAMP IN THE FUTURE

Some of you need to know how to get to the damn point instead of babbling on and on because I can’t comprehend a lot of the damn comments on here! Anyways, I’ve been saying this shit for years, rappers are nothing but shit! The most popular one’s doing it right now are 50 and Luda. I can’t stand any of them, and dudes have the nerve to say “They got hot lyrics.” What hot lyrics? They are commercial, have women who don’t respect themselves shaking their ass, cigars or disguised weed, alcohol, in their videos. They say things like “There’s some ho’s in this house if you see them point em out” And didn’t Game said that’s why he doesn’t “Fuck with industry bitches” he’ll just keep a low key bitch or something like that?

I didn’t watch the above videos yet, but from what I heard, Ruselle and the other guy need their asses whooped from some of us strongly opinionated CL people. How are they going to support this trashy dumbass music? I’m still a junior in high school, and I can say that I get real pissed when there are white wiggers and posers saying “Was sup dog” or “Gurl how u doin” or “Yo get outta my face” or even say the N word in a stereotypical black way, trying to make fun when their ass aint funny! I always found it strange that white gurls started wearing weave instead of hair extensions, say ghetto, singers like Fergie and Justin Timberlake use the word “brotha” and they start to act and dress what they think is black. Back in 2000 we still had our things exclusive for the black community but these dumbass rappers have exploded the pop music world. Commercials are even using hip-hop music. It’s crazy.

WE NO LONGER HAVE A CULTURE OF OUR OWN. Puerto Ricans and other Hispanics still have their culture and what do we have…A BAD IMAGE!

I know I refer to celebrity females who I don’t like as bitches, ho’s, skanks, whore’s and what not, but I think they portray that. Like, rappers call chicks in videos who shake their asses video ho’s or just plain ho’s and bitches. Okay fine, that’s what they are but then to sleep with them and support them in videos? How dumb is that? To be a rapper who’s married and respects his wife and to say to be quoted in a magazine “Nah I got a wife I don’t fuck with them ho’s” Is a big difference than shake ya ass bitch!