yay i’m first

Wow im mad i missed it thanks for keeping me on my toes

I think its a little late..but betta now than never.

All this is nothing but lip service. What are they going to do legilate rap lyrics? If they wanted to have a real debate about it then why not have the rappers that sue these lyrics? Why not ask the white women in the audience will they stop their kids from buying offensive rap cds since white kids buy the majority of rap music. Hell one of the most violent movies last year won a oscar for best picture (The Departed). Are they going to have a show on offensive movies,tv shows (don’t get me started on reality tv),and movies? I hate some of the crap that’s being put out today as rap music but I JUST DON’T BUY IT! This will accomplish nothing because it’s a lot of folks grandstanding and that’s all it is.

Oh damn.. I missed it. Thank you for the clip though.

We are responsible for our own houses. Rap artists, movie makers, and the like can put out what they wish. It is up to us to support their projects or turn away from them due to their imagery or lyrics.

Should rap artists be able to use certain phrases while others cannot? I don’t think so. I don’t think that double standard should be allowed. Because you’ll have the artist claim that it is part of what they know and/or much like the N-word that only black people can use it not while people. However, you’ll have a 16 year old kid who played no part in any violence towards the black community hearing these lyrics and think nothing of using the terms themselves. It must be wrong for all not some. Unless the artist wants to go so far as to put a disclaimer on the CD stating that any white fans who purchase their music must not repeat half the content on the CD then there is no way to state that the young white fans who support these artist cannot use these lyrics.

These terms are unacceptable for anyone. To have a woman called a hoe as naturally as they would be called a woman is degrading. We are the ones with the power.

I have a 10 year old son. He couldn’t tell you who the latest pop, hip hop, rock artists are. He has not been allowed to listen to the radio. He does not watch MTV or BET. He has only shown interest in the soundtracks that come along with his favorite movies. Luckily they have all been instrumentals. I am the one who decided that there was nothing on the radio that was worth listening to and due to the vulgar lyrics on most CDs I am the one who has not purchased any of the music. It is my money, my decision.

Stand up, people.

I watched both episodes. My mama always told me just b/c someone else does it doesn’t mean you should do it. Also, if you get caught don’t try to say, “well so and so did it and they didn’t get in trouble”. That is what Don Imus is trying to do.

*************However*************

I do agree with the response on the Oprah show that we can not hold “White” people to standards that we don’t hold ourselves. It should not be o.k. for US to allow videos and music to characterize us as being hoes and Bitches and get mad when someone else of a different race does it. Eveyone should be held accountable equally.

**********Also************

Let this not be a Oprah bashing post. She might be Oprah but she is entitled to her own opinion. She did not ask for us to hold her up like JESUS! She has a right to make mistakes and have her own opinion. Let’s stick with the real issues please.

I agree with MrsMcNeil06 that we need to hold ourselves accountable for our actions; however, this should include Oprah (and I’m not bashing). A few days before the Imus situation became national, I was watching the Oprah show and she referred to herself as a b*tch (either it was on the actual Oprah show or the ‘after the show’ on Oxygen).

I watched this yesterday. I’m not convinced these record lables are going to suggest these “poets” as Russell Simmons calls them change their music. And for Russell to call these people poets is beyond me. Most of the rap music these days is just garbage. Several of the guys on the panel said they’re speaking from the heart. That is totally BS!

Thanks for putting up this post. These are the type of articles I like to see on concreteloop, not the one’s about who’s wearing what or who looks hot/busted. Who fucking cares?

sorry, I meant ones

HOLD UP…..UM NAPPY/NAP IS A WORK THAT IS OF OLD ENGLISH /GERMAN DIALECT AS WELL AS WHORE/ HO’S ( ADD A LITTLE SCOTTISH ORGIN FOR THAT WORD…)
He must not know …or understand history..white folks at one point in time used words to define the difference between white and blacks… HE NEEDS HISTORY ONE ON ONE…..BED WENCH/WHORE/ HO…..HE CANT HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT THE ORIGIN IS FROM THE BLACK COMMUNITY…..WOW…..

I DONT THINK U SHOLD BAN HIP HOP AND IF YOUR BLACK AND THINK THIS SHOULD BE DONE UR SETTING HISTORY BACK A NOTCH…MUSIC NO MATTER HOW OFFENSIVE SOMEONE MAY TAKE IT IS A RIGHT ….THAT NO ONE CAN SNATCH AWAY..AND STARTING THERE…IS A WAY TO REESTABLISH BLACKS AS 1/4 OF A PERSON………

THIS IS THE PROBLEM NOW….PPLE DONT WANT TO TALK ABOUT RACE WHETHER ITS A POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE FORM….AS LONG AS IT IS SWEPT UNDER THE RUG UNTIL A SPECIAL NATIONWIDE INCIDENT OCCURS THEN WE WILL ALWAYS HAVE THIS PROBLEM…

AS A FORMER COLLEGIATE TRACK AND FIELD ATHLETE I’ve been a victim to pple say a lot of racist ish to me..U wouldnt be here it it wasnt for sports or affirmative action, or my coach saying ish like “Dont bound like ur jumping over the trash cans in the aisle of newark.” “run nigga run” And u know that i cant blame that on hip hop… I blame it on hatred and ignorance..Ppple are ignorant to what they dont know..
Don should still have his job…he just needs more black listeners someone to expose him to the fact that we have more in common then he thinks.

how about this ..lets blame the dixie chicks or country music for all the women killing their husbands/spouses…lets blame ozy for all the suicide and sadistic murders and serial killers out there..u cant…

Pple in entertainment put out what the majority wants to hear… Let me stop there b4 i push someones buttons besides i have work to do..

Just some food for thought…MY OPINION SOMETHING EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO

One more thing, if these Poets don’t want nobody else to degrade our sistas they shouldn’t do it. Just like with the N word. If they don’t want nobody to call us that they should stop using it in their music. Let’s face it, everybody, I mean everybody, black and whites alike are buying this music and they are singing the songs. So, if they hear somebody singing one of the songs don’t get mad when they call your sista a bytch or hoe and don’t go flying to the NAACP when you’re called a nigga.

That show was very interesting. I saw the first half of one and the second half of the other. I’m sure she will repeat it soon. It should have continued for one week, but hey it’s not my show.

nice
celebritysnap.com

Gosh Russell & Gayle are kinda rude. I know we all get heated over this topic but there should still be respectful & polite discussion/arguement. Due to my own personal issues with them I pay very little attention and have minimal respect for the Russell Simmons & Al Sharpton’s over this world. But as a woman I will say this, we must all acknowledge that these endless debates & discussions won’t go anywhere if we don’t accept the mutality of the problem. Black men AND women are reponsible, both in the mass media and the wider world. There are men who love and glamourize objectifying women and there are women who are prepared and even aspire to being objectified. In the rap scen you have men who loosely call women “hoes” yet you also have the Trina’s and Remy Ma’s of this world who freely talk about how good their pussy is or how well they give brain. I don’t hear those females being called out. Similarly there are the so called “video hoes” and such who make it their aim to be succesful doing that. I truly believe that SOME women have no right to even raise a fuss over the Don Imus issue because they themselves encourage this view of black women as “hoes” by pandering to the mysognistic demands of black men. Yet in the end it is ALL black women who get labelled hoes. SMH. Let us each take responsibility for our actions on both sides of the gender spectrum otherwise you end up with needlessly circular arguments (eg.on the Oprah show) which although highlighting the problem will ultimately get us nowhere. The problem is mainly encouraged by the mass media (whether shows like the Chapelle Show or music like 50 Cent) and unless eople withdraw their support for such media (which I very much doubt) then the problem will continue and you will have white folks thinking its ok to call a black woman a “hoe”. Put money in the pockets of the Snoop Doggs of this world rather than the Commons and your problem will continue as the media will follow whatever provides the most commercial game. Such a shame

*mutuality

sorry for the endless typos!

# 12 I bet he didn’t know where the word ho came from. That is all the more reason we need to stop using the terms ourselves. If you listen to the whole show, he’s mocking us for the terms we use. He is not the first one to say tings like this about female basketball players. Remember ” All those (bitches was bleeped) WNBA players look like dikes i dont care if you know one” was said by a black man on BET.

why are all the dudes on the show either high yellow or bald???? Oprah need to stop thinkin bout her white audience & get some real nappy headed borthers n sisters to talk about the issues that they know best about. Russell is agressive n rude. LOL at how Oprah does the lean wit it rock wit it one day then think she can come in for serious black discussion on the next day. you can’t be doin all that coonery n expect white folk to take u serious

I watched this episode yesterday, and I have to agree with the majority of what’s being expressed here:

ONE: We must take responsibility for what our kids are buying and listening to. We can’t censor rappers or any other artists or that matter.

TWO: We have to set the standards for how we’d like others to view us. If you buy into and use these denigrating and stereotypical terms, expect others (other cultures, races) to treat you as such. One young lady on the show shared an experience of traveling abroad (sorry , I forget which country)and was called a “ho”, because it was assumed that ho was a respectful term.

THREE: Russ really pushed the envelope by referring to all rappers as “poets”. That’s truly a matter of opinion. It is my understanding that any serious poet’s writings not only reflect what’s going on in society, but also brings about reflective thinking and positive change in society. I DO NOT FEEL THAT INFLUENCE IN MOST OF HIP HOP NOWADAYS. I also feel that Russ also deflected responsibility from the “poets”.

FOUR: For the most part, the young ladies group that Gail was moderating didn’t get nearly enough speaking time.

FIVE: The all male panel was clearly speaking out both sides of their necks, trying to have it both ways. It was sort of like listening to corporate doublespeak.

SIX: I APPLAUD 105.1 FM FOR TAKING THE FIRST BIG STEP OF REFUSING TO PLAY SONGS THAT EXPRESS EXCESSIVE DEGRADING LYRICS OR WHOSE VIDEOS REFLECT THESE NEGATIVE IMAGES.

It’s not that I’d like everything to be clean and pure - far from it. I like to get as down and dirty as the next guy, but when the overwhelming majority of this content is reaching our young via 106 & Park and TRL, and I have to go to family party and watch my 7 & 8 year old little ones dancing like they’re “on the pole”, and kids on the train saying n*gga this, n*gga that, and every other word coming out their mouths is n*gga, then I have to speak out.

@ 13

Its as if you read my mind girl. Thats how I always feel about these kind of issues. The Oprahs of this world, who don’t support the use of the N-word in musci, have a right to protest when a person uses it against them. But 50 Cent, Diddy, Chris Rock and Dave Chapelle etc have no right to complain if a suburban white kid comes up to them and says whats up my N………If you put it out there you will recevie.Its sad that although some people put that out there, we ALL end up receving it.

@ 19
SMH. You have a long way to go my dear sister. I will pray that the Lord intervenes and opens your eyes and permits the cloud of ignorance to fall from around you.

I was in the audience for this taoping and they did Monday’s show and Tuesday’s shw back to back, and there was some serious bullshit happening. Not from Oprah but the Producers inability to let younger people or the HIP HOP generation speak: for example:

WHY THE FUCK DID RUSSELL SIMMONS NOT GET REPRIMANDED OR ASKED ABOUT HOW HE GAVE EMINEM A PASS WHEN THAT OLD TAPE OF HIM DISSING BLACK WOMEN COME OUT? HOW COMES HE GETS TO MAKE ANOTHER MULTIMILLION DOLLAR CD BUT IMUS GETS FIRED (DOUBLE STANDARD)

HOW COME RECORD EXECS CAN DICTATE A SONG AN ARTIST CAN HAVE ON THEIR CD AND TELL THE THEY NEED A MORE “POP FRIENDLY SONG” OR A MORE “GANGSTER” SONG BUT THESE A&R’S CANNOT SAY NO TO THE MISOGYNY IN RAP

NO RAP IS NOT TO BLAME BUT FOR FUCK SAKE HE IS QUOTED AS SAYING THAT OUR BLACK MEN DISS BALCK WOMEN ALL THE TIME - OF COURSE HE WAS INFLUENCED BY URBAN CULTURE

IF JAY Z SAYS DRINK CRISTAL PEOPLE DRINK IT, WHEN BIGGIE WORE VERSACE SHIRTS THEY WERE POPULAR WHEN RUN DMC SANG “MY ADIDAS” SALES WENT UP WHEN PUFY SANG “PASS THE COURVASIEUR” THE SALES INCREASED
SO RAPPERS ACTIONS DO AFFECT US AND IN TURN OTHER RACES

DO YOU GYS NO THAT THERE IS A CLUB IN LAS VEGAS THAT HAS FAKE MONEY THAT COMES FROM THE CEILING AND IS DROPPED ON THE CROWD WHEN THE SONG “MAKE OT RAIN” OR THE REMIX COMES ON? HOW BLIND AND HYPOCRITICAL ARE WE GOING TO BE?

D4L FBO, NELLY, SNOOP, AKON, EMINEM AND MANY OTHERS HAVE A BIG RESPONSIBILTY AND OWE WOMEN ESPECIALLY A BLACK WOMEN AN APOLOGY, BECAUSE WHEN BLACK WOMEN START BOYCOTING THEIR PROUCT BE IT CD’S RECORDS RING TONES OR CLOTHES, THEN THEIR RECORD COMPANIES WILL DROP THEM.

AND KEVIN LILES AND HIS WHOLE “GET TO KNOW US AS A PERSON” BULLSHIT…..

SHUT UP DUDE YOU ARE A CLOWN,SIMPLY BECAUSE HOW CAN WE GET TO KNOW SNOOP OR RKELLY OR FAT JOE, ALL OF THEM MARRIED WITH KIDS, IS THAT THE IMAGE THEY GIVE MILLIONS THROUGH THEIR MUSIC? EXACLTY YOU CLOWN

Why did IMUS lose his job yet Snoop Dogg and Jay-Z never lost their contracts for disrespecting women countless times?

Why is it that when a white person born and raised in poverty is racist or sexist there’s no excuse but once a black person born and raised in poverty uses “nigga, bitch, hoe” the excuses are slavery and poverty?

Why should I care who Puffy and Snoop are “inside” if they don’t show any sign to aspire for EVOLUTION and more MATURITY and don’t care to sell out their own community for money? They poison the community so I don’t care to know who they are. People like Russell Simmons get on my nerves, those rappers come from the hood? They were poor? Puffy and Snoop been out the hood for YEARS, eating caviar and drinking Moet, travelling THE WORLD, owning their own labels, so spare me the excuses. They don’t change cause they don’t wanna change.

Oprah was a child born and raised in poverty and did more change than those CLOWNS ever did. I’ve been poor to the point when the family spent days without electrictity when the bills couldn’t be paid, YET I went to school, got an education, got a job, started my business and I’m living comfortably now. DO YOU REALIZE THAT OUR PAST LEADERS AND ARTISTS LIVED IN WORST CONDITIONS AND HAD LESS OPTIONS THAN THOSE RAPPERS??? DID THEY USE POVERTY AS AN EXCUSE TO CALL WOMEN BITCHES AND HOES IN THEIR SONGS??

Excuse my french but FUCK THEIR EXCUSES : I DONT WANNA HEAR IT!!!!!!!!!!!

As long as people won’t TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DAMAGE THEY ARE DOING instead of mastering in finding excuses, nothing is gonna change. The radio is responsible, the consumers are responsible, the magazines are responsible, the rappers are responsible, the labels forcing artists to fit certain standards are responsible, MUSIC channels like MTV and BET are responsible, the parents who allow this music in their homes are responsible, the excuse-makers ARE responsible.

I’ve been called a hoe for being a black woman, in AMERICA AND ABROAD, I’ve been physically violated for being a black woman, my intelligence has been questionned because I’m a black woman, I’ve been scorned for being a black woman, I’ve been considered less of a woman for being a black woman.

Haven’t we seen the low self-esteem our kids have with the Kiri Davis video YEARS AFTER the first doll test? Do you want things to get worse? How long are we gonna HELP perpetrate the pimp and hoe stereotypes?? Don’t those people realize that the worst damage it is doing to our community is that we end up stereotyping each other, degrading each other, despising each other?? Black men and black women don’t even trust each other anymore. Isn’t that a good enough reason for starting to MAKE A CHANGE??? BLACK PEOPLE STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES!! WE ARE DIGGING OUR OWN GRAVE!!!!!!!!!

OH YEAH JUST TO ADD…..

IN THE SONG “MAKE IT RAIN” AND THE REMIX, LIL WAYNE RAPS/SINGS THE LINE “I MAKE IT RAIN ON THESE HOS’?

FOR EVERY WOMAN IN AMERICA WHO SEES ANY MAN IN CLUB THROW MONEY UP (FROM THE DEBACLE AT THE ALL STAR WEEKEND - TO YOUR LOCAL STRIP CLUB - TO A REGULAR FRIDAY NIGHT OUT WITH YOUR GIRL) THIS WHAT THESE MEN ARE SAYING ABOUT YOU.

NEVER MIND IF THEY ARE BLACK AND HAVE COME FROM NOTHING AND NOW WANT TO BE SO IGNORANT THEY THROW THEIR MONEY AWAY AS A SHOW OF FAKE WEALTH, THEY ARE DEMEANING YOUR VERY EXISTENCE AND BEING AS A WOMAN.

@ 23. Chanté
—————————————————-

thank you THANK YOU THANK YOU TOO TRUE

Interesting….
When Kiri Davis ging to appear on Oprah’s Show ??

I hate the fact that people who dont even fool with Hip HOP are the biggest ones complaining about the content of it..On Oprah’s show she’s showing the so called “negative” videos by these others artists,and the only rapper she invites on the show is COMMON ?? He has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand..Why not invite 50,or nelly on the show ?? These fuckers dont care about changin Hip Hop,they just wanna bash it.The word “bitch” didnt start with rap music.And we cant act like there arent people on this earth that dont fit the description of a “hoe”..These women just wanna cry about something and its easy to blame the rappers..How bout talking to the women who do these videos..I didnt see Oprah bash superhead when she was on the show and she was the biggest hoe out there..If u dont really know shit about Hip Hop,who are u to speak about what needs to change in it ?? Them spelman women couldve sat down with nelly and had a discussion,but instead they just gonna tell him “we dont want u to come here” How is that gonna help the situation ?? These rappers are only gonna listen to people they respect.People that do the same things that they do..Pac was the most influential rapper ever,and even he used the word HOES,and BITCHES..But everbody loved PAC rght ? Things are only gonna change when the main Hip Hop artist start to turn things into the right direction,not cuz these people with sticks up their asses say it should change

@ #22

CO-SIGN!!!!

You just made me remember that awkward moment when Kevin was doing his best Keith Sweat, begging us to get to KNOW him and the other artists.

IT’S FUCKING ENTERTAINMENT AND ALL ILLUSION, HOW THE HELL DO YOU TO GET TO KNOW A CELEBRITY PERSONALLY? IS THERE ONE WORD THAT COMES OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS THAT ISN’T REHEARSED OR WRITTEN UP BY SOME PUBLICIST? IS THERE A GET INTIMATE WITH YOUR FAVORITE IDOL DAY THAT I DON’T KNOW ABOUT?

AND FURTHERMORE, IN ADDITION TO #22′S LAST STATEMENT ABOUT CELEBS LIVING ONE WAY AND WRITING ANOTHER WAY, CELEBRITIES ARE DIFFERENT THAN YOU AND I. THEIR DAILY LIVES AND CIRCUMSTANCES ARE RADICALLY DIFFERENT. MOST OF THEM DO NOT CONNECT TO THE NORMAL GOINGS ON THAT WE CONNECT WITH ON A DAILY BASIS, EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE NOT ALWAYS FAMOUS.

COME THE FUCKS ON!

Where are my asprins?…

# 21 i dont need yo prayers thank u very much. why they do these shows anyway if the true perpertrators arent being held responsible. How much y’all wanna bet that we aint gonna hear shit from Chris Rock, Dave Chapel, Snoop or Ludacris about this issue? They will keep they mouths shut n wait for the problem to go away becuz they know they responsible for it. I aint got no beef wid Common cuz he be making respectful music. But its Ludacris n his type who should be on the show. But then lets not forget that when he did cum on the show Oprah called him out for his lyrics n he had the nerve to start that whole issues with rappers being like fuck oprah. N some of y’all on this blog supported them. Now you see the damage that Oprah was talking about to Luda. Y’all support his sexist ass when he make songs like “shake ur money maker”. Many of y’all are hypocrites..as usual

I watched both episodes and must say that I agreed hold-heartedly with one person- a member of the audience. She was a school teacher and her statement was that we need to stop blaming the industry for our children’s failures. We need to start reflecting upon ourselves. Also, I feel that the question “why” needs to be asked a lot more. “Why” does the community choose to say these things and glorify the activity? “Why” does this music sell? “Why” do the artist choose to produce this type of art? I can tell you why. It starts with environment and home. It starts with education. I love Oprah to death but she tends to gloss over the fact that our neighborhoods still suffer. I’m from Philadelphia which now holds the highest murder rate in the country (I believe 111). These murders aren’t happening in upper class, White neighbors. They are happening within the poverty stricken ones. Why? Plain and simple…..lack of education. There is a lack of it coming from the home, school and community. Once we begin to acknowledge and then correct the root of the problem everything else will fall into place. Everything meaning music, business, politics, the Black Family home structure, etc. That’s all!!!

Lashonda,

You claim you do not need my prayers yet you are perfectly happy to use my arguments and examples (eg.Chris Rock, Dave Chapelle) in your own post whilst pretending you came up with it yourself. Don’t cast stones when you are ignorant. And believe me YOU ARE. Your strange behaviour will only make me pray even more for you, you are clearly a troubled individual.

Peace

I watched the show on April 17th, and I was disturbed by the dispostion on the faces of Russel Simmons and record executive Kevin Liles. To Russel Simmons, I am an African Black man, who has been living in the US since 1994, a good portion of my life, I was raised in Africa, and if there is one thing that I learned it is respect for women. Many, not all Africans are poor. Or live in very difficult conditions, you used the example(which i thought was an excuse) that poverty is a stage that gives these rappers, poets,the ok(we should accept)to call women, Hos and bitches and demean each other… This was NOT a good example. We Africans may not have much in terms of money, but we have respect, respect for our women, our mother’s and most importantly the source, we respect ourselves. It was difficult to accept that you did not come to the show on defense, I as a viewer thought you would come without all the frowning and dramatic expressions on the stage. Speaking over the host- a woman, making side comments- a lack of class or calm or control.

Kevin Liles came across as ” the intern” that has not learned to contain his emotion. If he had been PAYING ATTENTION, he would have not misunderstood the statement by the other gentleman. Education is fundamental, listening is so important. He was a true example of what SOME- Not all African American brothers get caught up in doing. Reacting before understanding the statement or situation. What a shame, that blackmen to this day an age had to be pushed to acknowledge the fact that there is a BIG PROLEM on both sides, being men in those influential positions to be a pathway of this kind of “expression” to get on the airwaves. It needs to stop, and stop now it must.

A lot of respect for the Attorney, very well spoken and very clear in his assessment of the situation. These are the people that we need to have directing this change. Common a respectable artist that was refreshing to watch.

This is an epidermic that has been silently growing, we could be at a major cross road, which direction should we take… it has to be one that we take together and commit to collectively in action and words

Oprah shows WAAYYYYY too many commericals! I mean, after Common spoke:
(commerial break)

after India.Irie spoke:
(commerial break)

after Kevin Liles spoke:
(commerial break)

after New York columnist spoke:
(commerial break)

after an audience member spoke:
(commerial break)

she actually cut Russell Simmons off for yet another:
(commerial break)

Dang O! Anyway, I saw both shows and love the way we spoke about demanding change from radio and record companies and even within ourselves. But I SERIOUSLY doubt any action will be taken.

A month from now, people will be like “Don Who?” but disrespect for black women will still exist. Women period have always been thought of as second class citizens-black women (especially) lower than that. It’s deplorable but what can be do?

Record companies will continue to allow or even pressure their artists to use derogatory terms because it SELLS!! The young generation buying these records and going to concerts WANT to hear this name-calling, voilent, and disrepectful type of music!! It’s called supply and demand.

Point blank - C.R.E.A.M.

Women can turn this whole rap mess on its ear. With no women in the videos, who the hell would watch and listen? Imagine if 50 cent opened the door to the ‘Candy Store’ and it was empty? End of video. I saw a documentary last year that said these young women rarely even get paid to appear in these videos. That means they can’t possibly be hos. Hos get paid. If these young women unionized, demanded 100K each to appear in a video at least we could respect them for being business women. The rappers would never pay though. End of videos. Just like that. Women have all the power we need. We just need to use it.

also, i just wanted to comment on the statement by Kevin Liles concerning Stanley Crouch when he said he was “offended” by the comments Mr. Crouch had made. What a hypocrite! He has made his career on the strength of music which degrades and insults women. Mr. Liles, Mr. Crouch has nothing to apologize to you for. These hip-hop music industry spokespersons have no legitimate argument and much to be ashamed about.

I say the show and I must say I was very disappionted with Oprah. A lot of her views are biased and while theymay be realistic “her world”, they are reality for everyday people.

1: It is our responsibility as parents to teach our children and monitor them so that they know what is exceptable and what is not.

2: It is our responsibility as woman to uphold a standard for ourselves and not let ourselves be disrespected. If we say know there would be no choice but to change.

3: It is our responsibility as a community to not become so complacent with things because they seem to be the norm. Ten years ago Bobby Brown sang Tenderoni, but the girl had on clothes, today Bobby Valentino sings In Those Jeans and the girl has on only jeans. No one held a gun to either of these girls head, they made to choice and decided the level of respect they wanted given to them.

I think that people need to understand that YOUR ALWAYS GOING TO OFFEND SOMEONE. some OLDER LADY DON’T LIKE BEING CALLED OLD….DO WE STOP USING THAT TERM.

THIS WHOLE IMMUS THING IS MISSING THE POINT. MUSIC IS MUSIC PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY WHAT THEY WANT….JUST BECAUSE SOME CALLS THEMSELVE FAT DOESN’T MEAN THE PERSON AT THE NEXT TABLE HAS THE RIGHT TO CALL THEM FAT. PERIOD… but black people who use hoes, nigga or whatever…are setting a bad example for a whole nation….COME ON….

let talk about the real issue…..racism and sexism in companies….harrasment in companies…police shooting whoever they want (BLACK OR WHITE)

I DON’T THINK BECAUSE REMY MA CALLES HERSELF A HOE…SOMETIMES….MEAN THAT I CAN’T GET MAD IF SOMEONE CALL ME A HOE JUST BECAUSE SHE USE THE SONG IN TERM

HER NAME IS REMY MA…MY ISN’T….SHE CAN CALL HERSELF WHAT SHE WANTS…SHE DOESN’T REPRESENT ALL OF BLACK WOMEN IN AMERICA. PERIOD.

Real poets like Gil Scott Heron, Nikki G and the Last Poets are real artists who hold the black communities up. We need more modern day poets, writers and actors who represent us well. Listen to some of the comments blaming society etc wake up people, it start at home and that’s respect.

LMAO

this is SERIOUs…everybody wrote an essay!!!!

i’d just like to say that Don Imus didnt directly get fired because he said nappy headed hos comment. He got fired because the major companies that advertise on CBS and the other network he was affiliated with were pulling their advertisements because they didnt want to be associated with the whole issue and lose black consumers. If the advertising companies werent going to pull their funds, he wouldnt have been fired, he probably wouldve just been suspended. So for people to compare the lyrics of Jay Z or Snoop to his comment and say why didnt they lose their contracts is irrelevant to Imus getting fired- They are artists and they can say whatever they want because its an expression. Imus was working when he said his comment and that is unacceptable.

Also, when rappers refer to women as hoes, I’ve always assumed they are referring to the woman who act as hoes by sleeping around and all that. The only negative thing is that the term gets thrown around and ends up being used towards people who are not hoes but that doesnt mean artists should stop saying the term… it means people shouldnt be so ignorant as to repeat it or give them reason to call females one. Imus was referring to a collegiate basketball team. They are educated young women doing something positive with their lives so he had no right to call them hoes period regardless of if “everyone” else uses the term or not.

Well to me this IMUS thing was a big deal because of who he said it to…… not just what he said .. Now if he would have called the black girl that accused them boy of rape down in NC “a black nappy headed hoe” um sure nobody would have reported it or got mad … every body is acting surprise to hear him say that or … WoW this came from a white person in 2007 man imagin what these people say in the privacy of their own home joke or Innuendos … And we are talking about “Rappers” … what the hell …. at least they are speaking of their own reality but what about Movies … if you are going to go that route ….. the last thing I wanna say is this … I’ve been called worst in my life by people that don’t even speak enlish … isrelis and egyptians … and other nationalities in the middle east… man look I personally don’t like the guy but damn think of some of the stuff that you think or say about people … in your own right do we have the nerve to critcize … really think about some of the things that you think or say … TO YOUR FRIENDS OR FAMILY that’s never made it to a national audience … if I said half the stuff on tv that me and my wife talk about at home .. trust and believe I would be fired to… One more thing I am tired of people faking like …. they are not aware and wondering why this guy lost his JOB but JZ didn’t cause he said hoe … the same reason that every news caster was fiendin’ to use that phrase in context … Look man we worried about this and it’s people losing their life ..um telling you they greiving over here in VA

I have never heard “nappy headed hos” come out of any black person’s mouth…ever. I don’t know where this idiot gets his information from.

The whole issue in my opinion is a waste of time. If someone has no respect for you, wat do you care wat name they call you. We need to stop caring wat ppl think about us.
Rappers in the hip hop culture are blamed for degrading women because they put their thoughts to songs that become popular, but lets be real, all races of men degrade women, but most non-blacks don’t put their disdain in the words of a hit single. But does this make it right, hey… who cares, music is watever the artist wants to make it, if ur offended don’t listen or buy it. But look in this society hypocrisy is the best policy. You can change words, but if the mentality remains, then wat good is it. Figure out how to fix the mentality then the music will change itself. And from the observations i have made in my young life, only God can do that.

I missed this show, but judging from everyone’s comments and the (bland) wrap-up at oprah.com, I can say that there are many, many other artists that Oprah could have pulled on to address this issue. Now, I’m not saying those people couldn’t have been there, but why not invite your biggest critics? Like Ice Cube, Nelly, Luda, 50, and others, who can bring a different (and more relevant) perspective considering they are doing (or have done) more degrading music than Common. I love Common, but he SHOULD NOT have been the only rapper there. By doing that, you’ve already limited the conversation from the “rappers/entertainers” point of view and that doesn’t make for a well-rounded discussion. That being said, I can only hope that this “town hall” (FINALLY) opens the door for other shows on this issues and other issues involving the music industry in general.

Yes! We have video! Thanks Angel!

I agree with what most of you guys have stated and all I have to say is if we want to see change ladies, we have to start with ourselves. Our women need to stop appearing in videos shaking their butts half naked as if it’s cute, laughing and letting men disrespect them!

The Melyssa Fords and Buffy the Body’s of the world need to realize that when they appear in these videos and magazines they are not representing strong positive black women, but rather they are perpetuating the stereotype that black women should be objectified for their butts and breast and over all body shapes. That we should be thought of only for sexual pleasure and not for intelligence and strength.

I don’t think that any man should ever call a woman a ho, a slut, a bitch, or a whore especially not in a song, but we as women can not gain respect if we don’t demand it. I ask, how much respect can we ask for if their are those of us popping, shaking and laughing the disrespect off, deeming it acceptable? We condition the way people treat us and for every strong black woman in the world saying that she will not stand for this, there are at least 5 ignorant women who will oppose them and and defend the rappers and other artists and will simply call it entertainment!

It is hard to fight a war when the people who should be fighting with you are the main ones jumping ship! We ladies need to step up to the plate and stop allowing these men to think it’s okay to disrespect us by no longer disrespecting ourselves!

@#40 WHAAAT

You mean you’re not going to add your dissertation to the mix? LOL

All jokes aside though, it IS a hot-button issue.

the way i see it, a lot of rap artists glorify it-but theyre not holding a gun to our head. however i do feel that black women should be respected on a greater level than what we are perceived. yea theres some hoodrats and wuteva in the hood but all females in the hood are not necessarily gold diggers or hoes. but rap shouldnt be the only thing targetted because tv shows, movies, and rock music do the same thing. and parents cant monitor everything their kid is doin but monitoring what they do and say at home can have some affect. now a days rap is dancing music (uhm the franchise boys for example). so what if she wants to pop lock and drop it. its a dance. african music has dances that accentuates a womans figure-big deal

I dont blame Oprah for being pissed off, shes worked incredibly hard to promote a positive image of black women and she has done so successfully, whilst these silly rappers tear down the image shes worked so hard to exemplify.

.. thank you at Bill i said the same damn thing im hella pissed about that. I understand that this subject at hand is controverial as of now but why couldnt she have Kira on the show to tone things down a lil. No im not saying the issue at hand with Imus and the hip hop community isnt serious. Nonetheless I have the feeling that Oprah is in for making the black community look bad. She cant really relate to whats going on in our community but i think shes hella shady.. Oprah always has yellow tones *African American woman and males* express opinions but never the dark. The points made prior to mine I give a hella applause. For one blacks dont buy these rap albums for sales to hit the roof.. we buy bootlegs since the cost of an album is to much money. The rich white kids on the other hand have that cash and are able to buy the $24 dollar albums. haha at Oprah leaning and rocking days prior and talking about the negatives of “HIP HOP”. In my opinion i think Imus should of been suspended not fired none of these rappers nor singers get reprimanded for there provacative music.. its okay for R. Kelly to sleep with underaged females, Snoop can talk about blk woman dripping like water and tasting his candy, and Pretty Ricky SMH next!

I know I am going to get chewed out for this but so be it…..I AM SO OVER OPRAH!!!!!!! There is a huge disconnect going on in our community today between the old guard and the new and Oprah is becoming part of that problem and not part of the solution. The town hall panel to me just seemed as another venue to use hip-hop as a scape goat. We live in a world were value is placed on the material. You see it in ever avenue of entertainment and not just hip-hip. Oprah has her favorite things show and half of the things on there the average Joe can’t afford. I agree wholeheartedly with what the one teacher said (who Oprah was so rude to) It starts with parenting & education. People have the right to free speech….although what Imus said was degrading the constitution gave him a right to say it. Sure it’s degrading for rappers to call women hoes and bitches. But do we call people hoes and bitches because of hip hop? No. Do all black men call all black women bitches and hoes. No. Did hip hop create the word bitches and hoes. No. Oprah is too self-righteous to me….u feel that the youth in America are affected negatively by hip hop but you go to South Africa to build a school.

The problem with the old guard, Bill Cosby, Oprah, Harry Belafonte is that they want to point the finger and tell you what the problem is but they don’t want to tell you what the solution is. They distance & isolate themselves from the new guard which makes the new guard stick their middle finger up and keep doing what they are doing. Everytime someone said something negative about Hip-hop Oprah had this smile come across her face that made me angry. As soon as someone said something positive she cut them off or was disrespectful to them in some form. From this day forward I will no longer support Oprah or the things she does. I use to be a huge Oprah supporter but she really let me down with this “town hall” meeting.

@ 18 i remember him saying that too.. damn SMH

What Kevin and Russell were thinking during the O show…

WE DON’T GIVE A FUCK WHAT Y’ALL SAY!!! WE’RE RICH BIYATCH!!!!!!!!!!!! SHIT AIN’T CHANGIN!!! SHIT AIN’T CHANGIN!!!!!!

COINTELPRO: Counter Intelligence Program) was a program of the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation aimed at investigating and disrupting dissident political organizations within the United States.

Methods:

1. “Infiltration: Agents and informers did not merely spy on political activists. Their main purpose was to discredit and disrupt. Their very presence served to undermine trust and scare off potential supporters. The FBI and police exploited this fear to smear genuine activists as agents.” [4]

2. “Psychological Warfare From the Outside: The FBI and police used myriad other “dirty tricks” to undermine progressive movements. They planted false media stories and published bogus leaflets and other publications in the name of targeted groups. They forged correspondence, sent anonymous letters, and made anonymous telephone calls. They spread misinformation about meetings and events, set up pseudo movement groups run by government agents, and manipulated or strong-armed parents, employers, landlords, school officials and others to cause trouble for activists.” [5]

3. “Harassment Through the Legal System: The FBI and police abused the legal system to harass dissidents and make them appear to be criminals. Officers of the law gave perjured testimony and presented fabricated evidence as a pretext for false arrests and wrongful imprisonment. They discriminatorily enforced tax laws and other government regulations and used conspicuous surveillance, ‘investigative’ interviews, and grand jury subpoenas in an effort to intimidate activists and silence their supporters.”

4. “Extralegal Force and Violence: The FBI and police threatened, instigated, and themselves conducted break-ins, vandalism, assaults, and beatings. The object was to frighten dissidents and disrupt their movements. In the case of radical Black and Puerto Rican activists (and later Native Americans), these attacks—including political assassinations—were so extensive, vicious, and calculated that they can accurately be termed a form of official ‘terrorism.’”. [6]

The FBI also conducted “black bag jobs”, warrantless surreptitious entries, against the targeted groups and their members.[7]

Supporters of the FBI argue that the Bureau was convinced that there was such a threat of domestic subversion posed by radical groups that extraordinary efforts were required to forestall violence and revolutionary insurgency. Hoover was willing to use false claims to attack his political enemies. In one memo he wrote: “Purpose of counterintelligence action is to disrupt the Black Panther Party and it is immaterial whether facts exist to substantiate the charge.”

In 1969 the FBI special agent in San Francisco wrote Hoover that his investigation of the Black Panther Party revealed that in his city, at least, the Black nationalists were primarily feeding breakfast to children. Hoover fired back a memo implying the career ambitions of the agent were directly related to his supplying evidence to support Hoover’s view that the BPP was “a violence prone organization seeking to overthrow the Government by revolutionary means”.

In one particularly controversial incident, civil rights worker Viola Liuzzo was killed in 1965 by a shot from a car in which four Ku Klux Klansmen were riding; one of the Klansmen was an FBI informant. Afterward, COINTELPRO spread false rumors that Liuzzo was a member of the Communist Party and had abandoned her children in order to have sexual relationships with African Americans involved in the civil rights movement.

@ 45, like i sed in my comment at 30, its not about Oprah not inviting the rappers who are realy objectifying women. Do you actually think that Luda, Nelly would turn up to the Oprah shows on an issue like this. What could they possibly say? How could they possibly defend themeselves. Your wrong in sayingt that Oprah should have got in other artists, I bet she would have loved to. But they wouldn’t dare turn up there.They’ll keep quiest for now while the storm blows then come back out in a couple weeks to “make it rain on these hoes”

These spellman bitches gon act like like they don’t buy rap music. u saw how exited they were when they heard rappers were comin to their school. i bet u if 50 or hov ask one these hoes to be in a vidoe shakin they ass they would do it.

leave hip hop alone. rappers talk about bitches they encounter.

Krytin Said:
.. thank you at Bill i said the same damn thing im hella pissed about that. I understand that this subject at hand is controverial as of now but why couldnt she have Kira on the show to tone things down a lil. No im not saying the issue at hand with Imus and the hip hop community isnt serious. Nonetheless I have the feeling that Oprah is in for making the black community look bad. She cant really relate to whats going on in our community but i think shes hella shady.. Oprah always has yellow tones *African American woman and males* express opinions but never the dark. The points made prior to mine I give a hella applause. For one blacks dont buy these rap albums for sales to hit the roof.. we buy bootlegs since the cost of an album is to much money. The rich white kids on the other hand have that cash and are able to buy the $24 dollar albums. haha at Oprah leaning and rocking days prior and talking about the negatives of “HIP HOP”. In my opinion i think Imus should of been suspended not fired none of these rappers nor singers get reprimanded for there provacative music.. its okay for R. Kelly to sleep with underaged females, Snoop can talk about blk woman dripping like water and tasting his candy, and Pretty Ricky SMH next!

Bill Said:

I agree & cosign 101%

I think that although these discussions are important, is it really necessary to have them on National TV ???

Oprah Winfrey has good intentions, (I hope) but does it benefit our community to “Air Our Dirty Laundry” publically ???

When Tavis Smilley has his Town Hall Dicussions, it is down expressly for “Our Community Only” and it’s held at a private location.

Do we really need to tell the world about our disagreements, and the dysfuntional attitudes of our Young Black Youth ?

I would MUCH rather see a show on the Positive Aspects of Our Community !

I would much rather see a show about Kiri Davis.

Peace

hold it you know damn well them girls havent been called hoes hahahaha BULLSHIT! I just dont believe it at all they heard someone call someone else a hoe preferably a DARK WOMAN.. and why did they cut my man Common off while expressing his opinion

@23–CHANTE PRRRRRRRREEAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCHHHH! AMEN! Girl I like you. You on the righteous path MY SISTAH!

People are missing the point and falling for the spin the media has put on this. As somebody said above, a racist old white man shooting off at the mouth has NOTHING to do with hip-hop. He has a history of saying racist and offensive things on that show. The issue is the media’s tolerance of such behavior, and why it took big-dollar sponsors yanking backing for them to act. That is the issue. Had they stayed put, Imus would not have lost his job. Shock jock culture is something the media and the public have built up for years. Yet, when things get out of control, everybody wants to cry foul and act offended. If people would not give these assholes a free pass, we would not be having this discussion. Negative attitudes toward women and use of the N-word existed long before hip-hop and would exist if hip-hop were to die. Don’t let these white folks fool ya’ll. Make the corporations be accountable for what they are allowing these rednecks to say and NOT spin this into an issue of how we conduct ourselves. We are not the issue. This is the same man who talked about “bug-chasing” gay men on his show and cracked all kinds of crude jokes. So he’ll say anything. I am all for free speech. But free speech comes with a price. If you say whatever the fuck comes into your head with no regard for how it sounds, you should be expected to deal with the consequences.

19 is right about all that leaning and rocking bullshit.

You simply cannot blame hip-hop or criticize hip-hop because of Don Imus. Regardless of hip-hop those comments still would’ve been made—especially the word jiggaboo. Sorry people, vulgar music will not vanish. The blues was called the “devil’s music” because it talked about sex, spells, bisexuality, murder—this mortified many people. Yes, the blues is more relevant than mainstream hip-hop, but this is where uninteresting music is right now. Yes, we can critique it, but calling a ban on it, or Imus’ using hip-hop as a scapegoat to why he made those comments is foolish. Once again, why don’t we focus on jiggaboo, which is a horrible, offensive Klan term that is much worse than nappy-headed hos. However, like I said, you can’t pass the buck with jiggaboo, so we all conveniently ignore it.

I agree with #31 it starts in the home first.

I agree with some of #35 the only thing I disagree with is you do have BROKE hoes. Not all hoes get PAID some end up broke and wet if you get what I mean.

As for Oprah and her opinions on HIP-HOP culture and the degrading of women I disagree.

These women are GROWN and they make their own choices concerning their lifestyles. Just because people might not agree with their choices it’s still theirs. If these women want to use what they got to get what they want that’s own them.

I tell you what you better use it before you lost it.

I am a woman and the lyrics don’t offend me because they are not talking about me. People have to face it their are women in this world like that. And that’s their right to be that way.

I don’t want no one is this world deciding what I can play in my car, my PC, or radio. How do Oprah know what’s being said if she’s not listening to it. Next time when you want opinions from women concerning this matter ask the women who are in the videos ask the women who listen to the music and see what they have to say.

I’m a GROWN ASS WOMAN and I don’t need no one censoring my RIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here’s a link to a column published today on Salon.com entitled “IS RAP RACIST?”

It includes extended commentary from:

Nelson George
Greg Tate
Joan Morgan
Michael Eric Dyson
Margo Jefferson
Bakari Kitwana
Juan Williams

I would have like to have seen a few of these people on yesterday’s panel….

http://www.salon.com/ent/...007/04/18/rap_roundtable/

on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 @ 8:51 am

41. Angie said:
——————————————————————————–

i’d just like to say that Don Imus didnt directly get fired because he said nappy headed hos comment. He got fired because the major companies that advertise on CBS and the other network he was affiliated with were pulling their advertisements because they didnt want to be associated with the whole issue and lose black consumers. If the advertising companies werent going to pull their funds, he wouldnt have been fired, he probably wouldve just been suspended. So for people to compare the lyrics of Jay Z or Snoop to his comment and say why didnt they lose their contracts is irrelevant to Imus getting fired- They are artists and they can say whatever they want because its an expression. Imus was working when he said his comment and that is unacceptable.

Also, when rappers refer to women as hoes, I’ve always assumed they are referring to the woman who act as hoes by sleeping around and all that. The only negative thing is that the term gets thrown around and ends up being used towards people who are not hoes but that doesnt mean artists should stop saying the term… it means people shouldnt be so ignorant as to repeat it or give them reason to call females one. Imus was referring to a collegiate basketball team. They are educated young women doing something positive with their lives so he had no right to call them hoes period regardless of if “everyone” else uses the term or not.

——————————————————————————–
Bill Said:
I Like your POV

You made a very valid argument & your points are clear and concise.

Truth be told, there ARE woman that act like “Bitches & Hoes”.

If that wasn’t a fact, then the music would’t sell or be a sore point.

Should Rappers have the right to report on what goes on in the Neighborhood ???
Yes, they do have that right…It’s in the Constitution.
In this country, We have Freedom of Speech.

The Issue is that Young Black People listen to Rap Music and start to repeat the words that they hear…

Rap Music sells
Controversy Sells
Sex Sells..

Is it right….Absolutly NOT !
But here we are….We have a serious issue of disrespect towards each other in our community which allows our people to sell drugs to each other, without any thought of the buyers Health and Well Being.
We have a serious issue of disrespect towards each other in our community which allows us to call each other out of their names.

Peace

@ 61 lemme give you a breakdown of some of the key things you said which make people like you the problem due to your refusal to hold that mirror up and look inwards. I am in no way judging you because I myself have supported artists who objectify and demean women. Yet we must all open our eyes and not pretend that as a race we don’t have issues we need to address. Your attitude is very much its them not us. But when i heard Don Imus say “those are some nappy headed hoes” I instantly thought its US not them. What he said sounded to me like he had heard it from some form of black media ie. the Dave Chappelle type of shows etc. Your post was filled with a lot of denial 61. And I quote:

“We are not the issue”

“the spin the media has put on this”

“NOT spin this into an issue of how we conduct ourselves”

“NOTHING to do with hip-hop”

Move on from that tired old argument my sister and start accepting some of the harsh truth

I want to first say “nappy” is not something we (black people) ever called ourselves. As a race we always took pride in the texture of our hair (corn rows, cane rows and dreads). I hate to say it but “nappy” “nigga” “jiggaboo” and every other denegrating word that refers to the african community is the the white man’s words. What we have done is try to desensitize ourselves to the hurt that it dredges up by using it ourselves. We have tried to make it less painful to hear. However, when it comes out of the mouth of a white man… we don’t think of rappers we think of slavery. This is what it comes down to…. as much as we say it…WHITE PEOPLE CANNOT SAY IT!!! AND WE DON’T HAVE TO JUSTIFY WHY NOT…THEY JUST CANNOT SAY IT!!!!

# 4 I totally agree with you……

i’m really starting to dislike Russell Simmons in particular..he along with P Diddy, and Jay Z are a big part of the problem.

all those at the top of the game * including beyonce .. are not doing a damn thing to help.. they act like its non existant.

thank god for the neo-soul artist… common i love, mos def, india, and the rest.

BAN the N word!!!

Ok some of you are saying, don’t blame the rappers, monitor your childrens radio/tv intake, blah blah blah. But what what about when a non-black child comes up toy your child and says, “what’s up my nigga?”
Or your non-black coworker makes a comments like “whuddup pimp? What’s your response to that? I know we have some modern day coons that would just laugh it off, further perpetuating that that’s all right. Rap, especially negative gansta rap, does influence people everyday. Remember when Snoop used to say “fa shizzle my nizzle” which IMO translates to “for sure my nigga.”
Next thing you know you were hearing that in commercials, seeing it in ads, etc. And non-black people thought it was so cool. NOT.
The problem I have with rappers, is that they are on a platform for the world to see. The SHIT that comes out of their mouths has a negative impact on black persons whether you believe it or not. When one of “us” does something, we all get generalized for it. Do you realize that their are people who have little to no contact with black people and when they listen to rap, or watch shows like Flavor of Love(coonery that I myself shouldn’t have watched), they assume that’s what we all act like?
I have been stopped listening to rap now for years. Not to say I don’y bounce to a good beat, but they won’t get my dollar/support. Like I’ve said before, you don’t see white artists exploiting their women or talking about killing a cracker.
LISTEN to “our” rappers lyrics. Disregard for their own women and have no regard for the next BLACK MAN”S LIFE. Like my friend told me, its’ so easy for black people to hurt their own because we don’t value our own lives.

GOD! When will people realize that peepz like Russell Simmons and Kevin Liles are not the voice of black America. I can think of so many more worthy people who could have come and spoken on our behalf. Those two men acted in a way that was rude, disrespectful and plain ignorant (specially Kevin). I was embarassed to watch them even speak.

Russell was a trip! He kept going past the fact that rap is degrading and how much of an impact rap has on our community. When you walk down the street, you dont see people dressed like country singers or rock stars…they’re dressed like rappers with big hats, and big clothes, and saggy pants, and chains. He was trying to vicariously go off on Oprah, but Oprah was very professional. These rappers are not poets! Reguardless if they were talking about hoes and the streets, are true poet, you could tell that in his music. Nas does it, Tupac has done it in his songs, but most of these rappers arnt poetic at all! They are just being negative and disrespectful. Rappers need to be responsible for their songs. Kevin Lyles and Simmons were trying to walk around the subject. They know this is their livelyhood, so they’re not gonna argue against it.

Oprah is a damn sell out. She doesn’t like young black men just like the rest of America. How the hell did this white mans actions get pointed to hip hop. It’s like he is out of the loop hole now. Now it’s our fault because he said something out of context. OOOhhh, lets talk about hip hop and how BAD it is now. Screw them white people and Oprah too. Cuz, we all know who her audience is.

tut tut Ami Jane aka Ice Cube, u r the issue and that screw them white folks attitude is what sets us back. we develop from within then we tackle others

I wont say much, but what i will say is that i dont like the way “ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY ARE ATTACKING HIP HOP”. Its a MASS area of different music and if they dont like it. dont listen to it. PERIOD!.

Funny Thing Is i What The One Thing Women Call each other on a daily basis.. when they are mad or not mad.
“I Hate That Bi*** or i cant stand that h**.

Cmon Now… Really. :-/

i have a question for the spellman women. when you are at the club in the atl,nyc ,,etc should they call you a queen when your breast and butt are all out excepting drinks in the vip are you still a classy women. How about when you leave the club with a different dude every week your child in one room and you two in the next, no your a princess. how about when you got 3 babies at home and you still strippin. Or when the dj say thers a video shoot for down town you put on your heels and off you go, No we should respect you but you dont respect yourself

I know Russell tries to sound like an intelligent man, but I can’t get over his lisp. He got on my goddamn nerves talking over everybody and shit, especially Oprah. Who in the hell does he think he is. Its funny because, the only man who got his point across articulantly was Common.

#8- Get it together…. O said she was ACTING like a real bitch on a particular day because of something that had happened in her life (I believe the decision to put her dog down) so stop taking shit out of context.

#6…YES!!! THIS IS THE MOST SOPHISTICATED AND WELL PUT TOGETHER COMMENT I HAVE HEARD YET…GO HEAD BOO!! WE ALL NEED TO READ #6 AND BE A LITTLE MORE LIKE THAT. PROPS TO YOU.

SEABREEZE said:

“Like I’ve said before, you don’t see white artists exploiting their women or talking about killing a cracker”

LISTEN to “our” rappers lyrics. Disregard for their own women and have no regard for the next BLACK MAN”S LIFE. Like my friend told me, its’ so easy for black people to hurt their own because we don’t value our own lives.

Bill Said:

There is actually a genre of Music called “White Supremist Hate Music” or “Neo Nazi Music”, that is created by white youth in Hate groups.

The music glorifies and speaks of hatred towards Blacks, Jews & Gays.

The Money generated from this type of music is used to generate income for these Hate Groups to exsist (e.g Klu Klux Klan).

Good Morning SeaBreeze !!

I missed it. Anyway, I don’t understand it when people say “we” should clean up our house first due to the fact that- it is always going to be something with “white” to make them not to like us. For example, In 1955, there was a young boy, 12 or so, from Chicago called Emmett Till, lynched, head busted open all kinds of things. For allegedly- talking to a “white” woman. For all we know he could have been asking for directions- for he was not in his home state. His pants were NOT sagging low. He did NOT have 15 gold chains on his neck. His hat was not turned backwards. AND THERE WAS NO RAP MUSIC AT THAT TIME! What were the excuse- if you will- for him to have been treated the way- that he was??????? The fact of the matter is is that -’white people ice…has ALWAYS been alittle colder’. In temperment towards us, in language and in actions!!!!
I am glad to say that I do not have any friends outside of my race. Yes- I have a B.A./ M.S.- that has nothing to do with it. If I did, I don’t think that we could have an open discussion about it (this topic) if it arose.
There are some great books, I think people should check out:

1. Anything by ERIC DYSON
2. The Black Mosiah by Albert Cleage Jr.
3. The Miseducation of the Negro by Carter Woodson
4. When Africa Awakes by Hubert Harrison
5. The Assasination of the Black Male Image by Earl Huchinson

In the words of the French Philosopher Voltaire- I disagree with what you say, but will fight to the death your right to say it.

This panel was not appropriate for the subject matter as Common (the lone rapper) NO LONGER uses derogatory lyrics but check his track record, homie was a big homophobe when he was Common Sense.

That aside, we allowed that man to grow as we obviously have to do with some of these other ‘poets.’

The panel should have consisited of Snoop, Diddy, Game, Luke, Too Short, Jay, R. Kelly, etc. who actually use such terms.

But O didn’t want that battle baby!

I, too, think the show aired out a lot but resolved nothing. The people on that stage ultimately don’t get the last say oftentimes.

At the end of the day, with fame and attention comes responsibility. How willl you use your voice?

I agree #45, she should have brought other rappers..

lol @ #40

#37..thats true

It dosen’t matter who it was that said it..the fact that he disrespected them..it does not matter if her was black or white or whatever…he should not have made those comments about those girls. Its just draws up a lot of controversy because he is “white”

Good Morning Bill! Bill yes we know about white supremacisty music, but do you hera that on the radio? Is it used in the backdrop for a Ford comemrcial? Or maybe for a softdrink, etc. And even though it’s hate music, they damn sure aren’t talking about murdering their own. They want “us” and Jews dead.

#30 with all do respect, If women stop shaking their money makers then Luda wouldn’t have material to do these songs.

COMMON is BEAUTIFUL!
He is THE quintessential shining example of Black Manhood.
I LOVE That MAN!

And I ain’t going off on HBCU’S but I live in Atlanta and those Spelman chicks needs to drop the haughtiness. University Homes, Vine City, English Avenue and Ashby are all low income BLACK neighborhoods surrounding Clark, Spelman etc and I want to know what they are doing to mold Black America’s youth? The only time they can be bothered with poor blacks is when they need community service. They KNOW they need to keep it real.

on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 @ 10:07 am

85. SEABREEZE said:
——————————————————————————–

Good Morning Bill! Bill yes we know about white supremacisty music, but do you hera that on the radio? Is it used in the backdrop for a Ford comemrcial? Or maybe for a softdrink, etc. And even though it’s hate music, they damn sure aren’t talking about murdering their own. They want “us” and Jews dead.

Bill Said:

God Morning Love.
You have a VERY Valid Point.
I agree with you !

@ #79 HOOD_SHIT

#8- Get it together…. O said she was ACTING like a real bitch on a particular day because of something that had happened in her life (I believe the decision to put her dog down) so stop taking shit out of context.

_____________________________________________________

LOL! You soundin’ like my father an’ shyt!

thank you #77 see im sitting here watching the video like there lying there asses off and they know damn well they like that kind of music i know i do but i agree that its wrong in some ways. PEOPLE just think what would happen if the rikay music changed lol clubs wouldnt be hot any more.Oprah pissed me the hell off when she cut that black woman off..the first woman who came to the mic hit the nail right on the head but guess who snapped her neck like she had a disease OPRAH..no offense but all the people on he panel were talking out of context. Kevin wtf think before you speak.. im mad the excellent celebs Maya picked for the panal werent on there.

I actually like what Common said about the present Rap Artist Mindset.

Common said that we would be able to offer correction is it’s done in a loving manner.

Snoop was pretty upset when Don Imus made his comments.

Maybe that Incident will cause Snoop to considerwhat part his music played in this entire episode.

If Snoop has daughters, one day his daughter WILL grow up, and he will change his attitude and about women.

People have the ability to change if you handle them and correct them in a loving and compassionate manner.

Everyone deserves a second chance
Anyone has the ability to Change

Peace

THIS DISCUSSION IS MORE THAN THIS BLOG BUT AS FAR I AM CONCERNED I AM NOT A BITCH OR A HOE BECAUSE I DON’T ANSWER TO THOSE NAMES.
I KNOW WOMEN WHO HAVE CALLED OTHER WOMEN BITCHES AND HOES BUT GET MAD WHEN A GUY DOES IT JUST LIKE SOME BLACK PEOPLE ARE GETTING MAD AT DON IMUS. SHOULD HE HAVE SAID IT? NO. HOWEVER, AS A BLACK WOMAN I DO LISTEN TO RAP BUT I NEVER TAKE WHAT THE RAPPERS SAY AS INSULTING BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT ME. YES I DO BELIEVE THESE RAPPERS HAVE ENCOUNTERED PLENTY OF BITCHES AND PLENTY OF HOES IN THEIR DAY.
IF SNOOP SAYS PIMPS UP HOES DOWN AND YOU STAY DOWN THEN HE’S TALKING TO YOU.
IF LIL WAYNE SAYS MAKE IT RAIN ON THESE HOES AND YOU’RE WET THEN YOU ARE THE HOE.
SO NO, I DON’T BLAME HIP HOP OR RAP. NOW IF A RANDOM DUDE ON THE STREET WAS LIKE HEY BITCH, DON’T TURN AROUND. IF YOU KNOW U AIN’T A HOE U AIN’T A HOE. PEOPLE ARE SO FUNNY THAT IT’S REALLY NOT.
WHAT I WOULD’VE LIKE TO SEEN ON THE OPRAH SPECIAL WAS SOME OF THE RAPPERS THAT USE THOSE LYRICS BUT INSTEAD WE GET COMMON AND INDIA ARIE. COME ON!
I AM A BLACK WOMAN A PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMAN WHO LOVES HERSELF LOVES HER CULTURE AND LOVES RAP MUSIC.

* Jesse Jackson is a fool too he called New York a hymie state.. so i guess we have the worst canidates to speak for the blk community.. JESSE and SHARPE

a HYMIETOWN

#50 the rappers arent the one doing it. It is the women that are degrading themselves. (please etch this in stone)

@97, no disrespect or anything, but take the women out of the videos, now what?

And Bill that ignorant fool Snoop does have a daughter. He doesn’t care.

#52 you caught it too, how rude Oprah was to that teacher.

70. only1, you’re correct in pointing out the main people behind the issue. Unfortunately, Jay, Russell, Kevin Liles, Diddy, Snoop, 50 and Beyonce’ are the ones making the bis money! So, you can’t tell them anything! Russell and Kevin were fighting for their lifes on Oprah!

Common tries to keep his rap clean, but he knows how much the negative rap means to his career and he’s guilty by association! Mos Def tries to keep his poetry clean, but he host a poetic show that allows anything! Neither one makes the kind of money that the sellouts like 50 and Snoop make!

White people will buy black smut and sellouts, but they won’t buy anything else from blacks! Young white males buy 86% of the hip-hop rap and old white women put Oprah where she is today!

From day one Oprah has made her living by male bashing courting gays! She was willing to talk about her own sexual abuse and she became the mouth piece for white women who’d been molested by their fathers! Oprah even gave Rosie O’Donald her own show!

Male bashing is really not much different than Snoop serving as the mouth piece for desperate people who feel they’re shut out of the system! Both stans are the products of neglect and abuse! And, both stans pay very well!

So, the real problem are those people who provide the market for the sellouts! The teen pregnancy, drug abuse, gangs and marginalization of women in the black community is more tied to the poverty than the hip-hop culture, because our children are not the ones who provide the demand! All the negative conditions were there long before hip-hop! And, it has only gotten worst since Oprah’s been hosting “give away shows” and “my vacation with Gayle”.

I think a lot of what’s being said can be summed up by the “Golden Rule.” Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you don’t want to be disrespected and such, then don’t do it either…I never realized how that *little rule* could be such a real truth.

I wanted to say that the spellman girls are pretending to be do goody goody and they say they don’t listen to rap music but they go to clubs were they are (called ho’s) this doesn’t add up the clubs that have men that call women ho’s play rap music too they need to stop lying they are all listening to rap music!!!!!!

@Bill , your so right .. i feel its all embarrassing! all of our dirty laundry is been aired so the white world can laugh and feel sorry for us!

Some of you are in here saying black women call each other bitch and hoe all the time! SO WHAT! If you have a family/friend pet name and someone you don’t even know starts calling you by that name does that make it cool? HEll no! Am I guilty of using the word nigga(working on just saying negro) HELL YES! But do I want non-black people thinking they can call me that as well, ABSOLUTELY NOT! If you heard two Jews jokingly calling each other kike, do you think that would make it ok for you to say it? Try it at your job matter-of-fact and see they don’t fire that ass by sundown! My Jewish coworker thinks he can use the word nigga around me because his black friends allow him too. I had to check his ass twice about that and guess what, the first thing he said was “why cuz I’m not black?” Let me had’ve used a jewish slur to greet him with, I’d be collecting my unemployment as we speak!

Everyone is in that room are sellouts, Oprah, Russell, Stanley Crouch, K. Liles. Not one person was brave enough to point out the real reason why this is happening in Hip hop music. That the real puppetmaster is white corp. america. And just like everything in this world its about the bottomline. They will always find a some poor brotha that can’t hustle but can write a bar or 2. Give hime loads of money, he makes a hit single about some dumb sh*t, and the circle keeps going. We are just pawns in a bigger game. White american will continue having there feet on our necks tell we wake up and break the foot off. They are just pitting Rich black folk vs. Poor Black poor. Just Brilliant.

HOW ABOUT WE BOYCOTT REGGAE MUSIC..
1. they talk about killing gays
2. woman dance in sexually explicit positions
making it seems a okay for lil Nana to dance the DUTTY WINE
…

THE TRUTH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iphlmGlbqBc

It’s frustrating for People to continually argue about what wrong with our community without offering a solution or substitute.

Would you listen to Clean Rap, AND support it (Common, Mos Def) ?

Would you watch a video that DIDN’T have half naked woman in it
* In Particular, any Video that Beyonce makes would be off limit. In my opinion, Beyonce does show woman in avery good light (Freakum Dress, Bootylichous)

Would you go to the club and ONLY listen (and dance) to music that didn’t have overt sexual references or sngs that demean woman ?

Will you educate you Sons to RESPECT woman ?

Will you educate your daughters to behave themselves and act like young ladies ?

What will YOU do (as a individual) to make a change ?

Peace

I have read several of the comments and I would like to address #33 James (only briefly). I have had the opportunity to meet and mingle with a lot of guys from Africa (Nigeria, Lagos, Ghana etc.) and I have to agree to disagree with you on some things. I am not sure how old you are, but you seem to be pretty intelligent. You stated that you came from Africa in 1994 and you were taught to respect women. Were you a bit taken back when you arrived in America to see women being disrespected? Well, the point that I am trying to make is this. From the various conversations that I have had with African men/women, education, morals, values, discipline and respect for their women is not an option, it is a way of life. Whereas, in America, black men and women have the fear of the MAN in them and are influenced by their way of life. I have always been taught that you become a product of your environment. The fact of the matter is, black society has assimilated to white culture and we are too stupid to see that. I was born in Louisiana where my great grandmother was raised on a plantation. It sickened me as a little girl and even more so now that I am an adult that she would tell us how wonderful the white children were and how horrible we were because we were too dark (a curse), and was still afraid of white people until the day she died. During slavery there was a time called the “seasoning process” in which the slave master would rape pregnant women and cut out their fetus in front of her husband to put fear in him. MASTER didn’t have to ask, he could just take it anytime he wanted to. That itself violated everything that our people were taught and broke strong black men down to little weak boys. Now these weak little boys want to play monkey see, monkey do. The first music/videos that were shown exploiting women and displaying ignorant behavior were rock videos made by white folks. Shortly thereafter, the slave was so impressed by his master that he wanted to do the same thing.

As a strong black women, I do not understand for the life of me why women feel the need to undress in front of the entire world. A man worth having would rather recognize you for your class and not your azz. I am not taking up for rap artist but, what woman of God would let a man put a dog chain around her neck and walk her around half naked displaying her goods to the world? Why would a woman stoop to such levels as Superhead to be seen on tv? What type of affect does she think this will have on her son when he is old enough to understand how his mom got the nickname Superhead? Women need to stand up and take responsibility for their actions. Stop getting half naked and expect for a man to want what everybody else done had. Leave something to the imagination. Rappers call these type of women ho’s because that is what they are representing. Everyone knows that when you go to a jewelry store to purchase a nice diamond or pearl that the stuff on display is just eye candy and the real deal is kept in the back, in a vault for the most elite buyers. Stop putting yourself on display and represent who you are. A Beautiful Black Queen

I apologize for rambling. I never blog…

As for Imus, his statement was totally out of order because he was addressing a group of teenage girls playing basketball and none of which displayed any ho like behavior. Why didn’t he call the white girls on the team out of their name be it that they are all on the same team? I have not witness any rapper go as far as insulting teenage girls of any race just because they felt compelled to say something ignorant.

As for Oprah, she is not the person to address issues in a public forum in regards to the hip hop community or everyday black issues. She probably has good intentions but she has been white washed and like to put herself on a pedestal and air out the dirty laundry of her sisters and brothers. Oprah was once what everyone would call a ho. However, she called it being very PROMISCUOUS when she became pregnant early on in life. She has swept that under the rug and is pretending like she is infallible when she is not.

88. Decysive ~ That was a big step that the Spelman women took when they told Nelly to keep steppin! The women on the Oprah show were not the main players to cancel the Nelly show, but the standard was set and it made “black national” news! These women were just brought in to be mouthpieces like Jesse and Al!

While I agree that they probably only get involved when its convenient, I do respect college students who spend their time in class and in the library studying. They can give back when they get something!

KayKay ~ One will plant, another will water, but God gives the increase! And, its not what goes in that defiles!

I wonder what the Nation of Islam has to say…(Louis Frarrakan). Honestly, I am tired of Sharpton.

First of all……we live in america and anybody who has lived in this country more than 18 months knows that america is a sexist society. Entertainment in America consist of SEX, MONEY, and VIOLENCE. Why would anyone expect HipHop not to be infected by these same American ideals. No matter what the next level of HipHop music will be you will always have a percentage of individuals somewhere making music that will offend another. My problem with the current state of HipHop is the media’s narrow view of HipHop. The individuals who critized the art form on Oprah yesterday, have obviously never heard of PHAROAH MONCHE, GZA, MF DOOM, KRS-ONE, TALIB KWELI, SHABAAM SADEEQ, MADLIB, AFU-RA…….HELL EVEN WILL SMITH, THIS LIST GOES ON!!!!!!! Because if they were cognizant of these POETS, they would realize how ignorant it is to say we are a prison culture and would have chosen their words a little more carefully.

Like every other culture, HipHop has its flaws, except the flaws of other cultures are usually not embraced internationally. Real HipHop is out there but what it needs is a platform which should be RADIO. Think about how much HipHop music is produced and distributed on a regular basis yet how much of the same garbage is redundantly recycled hour after hour on radio which then spills over into video once the song has had enough spins on radio. Radio has allowed the voice of a few to become the voice of many. LOL…..and then they wonder why millions are switching over to satellite radio.

This is a beautiful time in HipHop because we are learning how to mold a culture as we go. Now we have a billion dollar platform to stand on and a voice that can be heard internationally. That coupled with the fact that the community is tired of useless and irrelevent speech being the representative of a people who are already stereotyped just because of the color of their skin, means that if we truly to control and responsibilty for our culture, we would have the power to inform, educate and even possibly choose the next president. We are the future and it is imperative that we let the world know it. Shit just ask Japan……..I love HipHop!!!!!!

@106 Kyrsten, being a person of Jamaican descent, that music is coming out of a country where that is the norm. I’m not saying that makes it right, but that’s the truth. Reggae music doesn’t bash gays really. It’s the dancehall music artists, Beenie, Bounty, Ele, etc. that promotes violence agianst gays/lesbians. Never the less, danehall music, while you do hear the most popular songs that crossover, i.e dutty wine, this isn’t music that is mainstream for the USA. majority of the people in this country can’t even understand what thet are saying, so I don’t think your statement counts. No disrespect.

Kay Said:

@Bill , your so right .. i feel its all embarrassing! all of our dirty laundry is been aired so the white world can laugh and feel sorry for us!

blackbutterfly said:
——————————————————————————–
“The first music/videos that were shown exploiting women and displaying ignorant behavior were rock videos made by white folks. Shortly thereafter, the slave was so impressed by his master that he wanted to do the same thing”

As a strong black women, I do not understand for the life of me why women feel the need to undress in front of the entire world. A man worth having would rather recognize you for your class and not your azz. I am not taking up for rap artist but, what woman of God would let a man put a dog chain around her neck and walk her around half naked displaying her goods to the world? Why would a woman stoop to such levels as Superhead to be seen on tv? What type of affect does she think this will have on her son when he is old enough to understand how his mom got the nickname Superhead? Women need to stand up and take responsibility for their actions. Stop getting half naked and expect for a man to want what everybody else done had. Leave something to the imagination. Rappers call these type of women ho’s because that is what they are representing. Everyone knows that when you go to a jewelry store to purchase a nice diamond or pearl that the stuff on display is just eye candy and the real deal is kept in the back, in a vault for the most elite buyers. Stop putting yourself on display and represent who you are. A Beautiful Black Queen

As for Oprah, she is not the person to address issues in a public forum in regards to the hip hop community or everyday black issues. She probably has good intentions but she has been white washed and like to put herself on a pedestal and air out the dirty laundry of her sisters and brothers. Oprah was once what everyone would call a ho. However, she called it being very PROMISCUOUS when she became pregnant early on in life. She has swept that under the rug and is pretending like she is infallible when she is not.

Bill Said:
Cosign 101 %

Although Oprah does do a lot of good,
it really wasn’t necessary to discuss this particular topic in Public.

White People already think we are crazy,out of control baffons.

Do you know how may White People watch Oprah, and take what she has to say as Gospel.

I’m realy disgusted that she choose this topic to discuss in PUBLIC on NATIONAL (International) TV.

Oprah is all about Ratings

Peace

#52 I agree oprah was really disrespectful to that teacher, because the the truth is older blacks do not want to except the blame for not properly nurturing us, their children, their biggest investment and this is the effect of not parenting. But we will not address the real issue spare the rod spoil the child. perfect example how many watched roots this week with thier children opposed to watching moniq charm school. be responsible it starts at home

103. SEABREEZE, you did the right thing by checking his ass! He probably made friends with a black person just for that purpose! How we address each other depends on the relationship we have with each other! You call yo lady words like, baby and boo, but that don’t give every Tom, Dick and Imus the right to call her his baby or boo! See my point? You have it like that, he doesn’t!

108. blackbutterfly, I just read a portion of your comments with post #33, and if I’m not mistaken, the African men are no better with their women and in fact, I would say that they’re worst! Please don’t get me started, because I know some ish about things that African men do to their women; things that American men would never do! So, lets just move on before we get into the dirty waters!

#44 I agree.

My sister does videos(she’s been in Kayne West, 50 and Snoop vids). Some might think that a person like her is making things worse but she is NOT the image that you see on T.V. She’s been married for five years to a good man, and when she’s not on the road working she is at home, working in her garden doing arts and crafts or doing volunteer tutoring for Spanish students. Its just a paycheck to her not a lifestyle.

110. samech said: “…I wonder what the Nation of Islam has to say…(Louis Frarrakan). Honestly, I am tired of Sharpton.”

======================================================

Louis Farrakan: “It all the fault of the white devil!” lol!

The nation os Islam treat women like bond slaves!

Jesse and Al are doing just fine!

@compton and katrika
i’m not sure where you two are from but from my experience i have heard a GREAT NUMBER OF BLACKS WHO USED THE WORD NAPPY. black ppl use it all the time. and katrika, you say that we are proud of the texture of our hair but black ppl are the most critical about their hair. they think that unless you are some mixed girl with long hair, you don’t have “good hair”.

as a general statement, i want to say that this complete show was utter bs. hardly anyone said anything of importance. i heard a few great comments (kevin liles WAS NOT in the mix of great commentators). as much as i love common, he did not say anything important. most of what i heard was “let’s make change” “let’s love each other” blah blah blah. i’m as frustrated as the Spellman girls.

personally, i don’t think hip-hop will change. the masses are too stupid to buy conscious hip hop. snoop dog, Lil’ Jon and other asinine acts will always sell more than the commons, lupes, talibs, etc. of the world. the general public does not know aby better. until people get more educated in this country, this is the state we will continue to be in. we could say that it is the parenting but come on now. there are several things that are affecting the situation. it’s parenting, it’s rap, it’s our whole entire culture. go to France. most of their hip hop deals with social issues (of course you have some idiots who think they should talk about bling bling like American rappers but as a whole French rappers are different). British rappers are different as well. we’re the only ones rapping about leaning with it and rocking with it, chicken noodle souping it. we are also in the forefront of disrespecting ppl in our music. we need to stop this. i’ve stopped listening to disrespectful hip hop and hopefully more ppl continue this trend.

I love how these Spellman chicks protested Nelly’s video when he came to their school to set up a bone marrow drive.

Nelly has done more for the community than any of those chicks combined. They need to stop craving attention.

@116- thanks MEATLOAF

On a whole this is some media “Bullsh!t” and I’m tired of it. People want to blame “HIP HOP” for the langauge that being used in it. When the fact of the matter is RAP is a piece of the culture of hip hop didn’t start off that way. Furthurmore all the negative images being pushed in front of us is just a small portion of rap in itself. The these major companies that are behind these artist are promoting that more than anything else. Sex and Violence sells as media is putting a spin trying to blame hip hop when it’s the enteratainment industry in general that to blame.
I guess those violent images of people being shot and killed in movies and rock roll which was big before hip hop projecting negative images of women aren’t to blame either right.

We definitely have some accountability for the music we listen to and create but the powers that be control that so RAP can’t take all the blame. If people don’t remember what’s mainstream now used to be underground and it’s at the top of the charts now. Who’s the blame the creators or the facilitators.

Most of these rappers that you talking crazy about have organization give a lot back to the community but that will never be promoted will it…
Women, if you have an issue with it. Stop buying it.. Rappers only speak about images they see the only reason rap is getting the blame is because it’s out selling every other form of music world wide.

People really need to be accountable for there actions. The only reason IMUS got fired was because the sponsors backed out. He could pop up on internet radio and be even bigger than he was with CBS. Let’s knock off the CRAP.. Rap is being put on blast now because of that “Pass the buck” mentality of who’s to blame IMUS doesn’t even play rap on his radio show…
Women you need to stop. Every night I go out your shaking you behinds to the stuff. So it is what it is… Entertainment it’s all a ploy to tear at rap music on a whole it’s hard being at the top. These people who talk about rap in a bad light some of them have angle’s you just have to see where there coming from.

Let’s not forget C.Delores Tucker who basically wanted her own record label but tried to use the censoring of hip hop as a front.

Also some people don’t have a right to speak HIP HOP because they are outta touch.. You can’t speak on stuff you don’t know about. It’s pretty much generational I grew up in the HIP HOP generation.. I don’t expect anyone from the B.BOP generation to understand me so I feel they have a right to speak on HIP HOP…

People need to look at themselves before they get on the HIGH HORSE..

and i have to add, why are ppl on this board saying that the spellman girls “know damn well that they listen to this music” or “you don’t respect yourselves and we should respect you?” who the hell are you? do you know these girls? is it hard for you to believe that not all black women are alike? i know many black girls who would never listen to hip hop or dance to it b/c they can’t stand it. i also know many black girls (i’m one of them) who either don’t go to clubs or when they do go, dress like classy women. this is the problem right here. you see a bunch of black girls and you have already made up your mind about them and then you wonder how white people can judge blacks. YOU JUST DID IT so stop complaining about how the white man judges blacks when you have the nerve to say these girls probably shake their asses in the clubs.

and stop putting down oprah and saying that she hates black men. yes, her target audience is white but if you were intelligent you would realize that whites own this country. in order to be successful, the white man must be on your side. you can disagree if you’d like but it’s the truth. oprah caters to white people but look at what she does with her money. it ALL goes back to blacks. she went to S. Africa and built a beautiful school for a group of intelligent girls who may someday become leaders. she helps out her black people yet you all still complain about her and call her a sell-out. no wonder why she had to go all the way to Africa to build that school. she gets no love from her own country.

Cultural capitalists pimp their cukture…they sell themselves for money and profit…they could care less about anything other than exploitation for the sake of financial profit and even these kinds of discussion are seen by them as nothing more than publicity…publicity to increase their sales

All the people on that panel were saying that rappers were modern day poets and speaking about the truths and problems that we face in our communities. I am so sick of hearing that as an excuse as to why we are so callous and disrespectful. When N.W.A. was saying F the police it was because the cops weren’t doing their job and they were doing more harm than good. Now when rappers say F the police they’re boasting and bragging that they now have enough money and power to do whatever they want and the police can’t really stop them(…ahem…Robert Kelly). Let’s be real most rappers who are talking about all the ho’s they get now or all the drugs they sold to get to where they are etc. aren’t trying to change, they say they’ll never change in their songs. We don’t always want to be positive sometimes I want to hear a song tellin a bitch to “get out the way” or “shut up” but regardless it still is what it is so lets not try to say its a catalyst for change when we all know it’s not.So as long as Nelly can call me a tipdrill Imus can call me a nappy headed ho. Don’t fire him cause he did what he’s paid to do (…be controversial) fire him when his ratings go down because we won’t tolerate it any longer.

Bill, one of the speakers on the Oprah said, “its time for us to air our dirty laundry”! So, why should we be embarrassed when Jerry Springer and Maury Miller’s been airing it for 20 years!

Embarrasment is usually the flip side of something that you’re proud of! Well, pride goes befor a fall! I was not embarrased because its clear to me that white people play a big role in this mess! Even bigger than the role of blacks who have a history of being systematically dismantled by whites and by ourselves!

I am glad that finally, people are standing up to Oprah, even though Russell is not my hero! And, Kevin didn’t let “ashy lips” get away with referring to him and his colleagues as clowns! He and the other big brother looked more like clowns to me!

We can’t keep throwing our dirty laundry in the closet and sweeping it under the rug because we’re too proud to suffer the embarrasment of airing it out in public! Jesus was stripped like a slave and led through the streets like a theif, so what do you and I have to lose?

Don’t be embarrased!

^^^^ New Yorker, PREACH! CO-SIGN 100%!

I had seen it.I just wanted to hit the TV.I don’t think hip-hop is responsible.Racism and degrading woman been on for years.But like someone said don’t point the finger, and most of you are pointing.If you so concern about it, don’t talk about it, do something.Words are nothing against action.Thats why I kind of don’t care about this topic because all we do is talking about it.I see more woman call woman hoes, and its evident on this.Take the woman who was supposely carrying Jayz child, there was a whole lot bitch and hoe in less than two sentences!You can’t sit here and tell me that woman are part of the problem to because we are.I know I done something about it I even told people on the blog that using bitches and hoes is not going to solve anything an if I see the same person,because most likely I know than Im gonna call your ass out,your part of the problem.

It was wrong of that man to call them brothers clowns though, that wasn’t making anything right.

@122..I couldn’t help but feel you were generalizing ALL black women. FYI, I don’t shake my ass in the club period! And I DON’T listen to any rap music. And we black people don’t make up the mojority of record sales, WHITE people do.
And so what if Delores Tucker wanted a record label, does that mean she was going to use it to sign and promote gangsta rap music/garbage?
I agree with you and the fact that it is bigger than hip hop, but we’re talking about “OUR” community here. What other race in the entertainment industry plays out themself like rap artists do? I mean, not saying you, but the way some of you are talking, yall acting like racism don’t even exist! You didn’t hear Imus say thos nappy and stringy headed ho’s!!!! DING DONG! When you look at this team, the first thing you see is the majority, which are black females. Look, I’m not trying to be Sista Souljah, but how many times have white people in the public eye thought it was ok to make a disparaging remark to/about blacks/minorities? We can’t do that crap. Miss Jones can talk shit about the Tsunami, but let her even attempt to mock a tragedy that affected mostly white people. They will roast that ass quick! Bill O’Reily will see to that.
No disrespect, just stating my opinion.

@Bill , i support your words

It just saddens me to see us constantly disgraced. its unfair.

i don’t wanna preach but the church has been talking about this for years.

i am from England and i have to generally live amongst white people, i don’t want any pity ! but i feel tired and restless constantly trying to prove non-white wronge when the media display us as fools.

we as black people are smart.. its about time we assist one another.

@123-New Yorker I so COSIGN!

@ blackbutterfly
your comment was highly insensitive. oprah was raped by her unlce and friends of the family and last time i checked, raped women aren’t hos. that is why she got pregnant as i recall and even if she had gotten pregnant by someone who didn’t rape her, you will never understand what she went through unless you went through it yourself so don’t ever call a raped woman a ho

And I might add, The Spelman girls talking about going to clubs, and they are in Atlanta and I’ve been to a few a them.You listening to hip-hop/snap while you in the club.They think they listening to jazz and dancing like they crunk?They got to be kidding me.Not all music is going to be good.Like my mom use to say if you don’t like don’t bother it.It didn’t get me because I’m like you going to the club to dance and you sitting here complaining.Because everybody know thats where most of the music be in with those kinds of words.

A lot of the people these women target as being disrespectful are out there making actual physical and financial contributions to their community. Doing far more good than any of them are with their little attention craving antics.

For example, Nelly. That man has done an insane amount of good for the people and the global community its shocking that all that goes out the window cus he said a couple of words.

#93 I am totally with you.

correction* prove whites

@133 exactly.People act like they don’t have hearts.A lot of rapppers do a lot of things for the youth like I heard Imus has a ranch for the poor kids which includes black girls and boys.Now see everybody wants to point the blame.Its on everybody.Its like nobody sees the good in people-especially rappers.Rappers are not role models,I mean they set an example,but not everything they going to do is good, so why waste your time thinking they are because this is no perfect world.

i thought oprah didn’t allow rappers on her show…

108. blackbutterfly said: “…I do not understand for the life of me why women feel the need to undress in front of the entire world.”

======================================================

Well, I can explain it to you in one word: “Benjamins”!

You can find women and men to do anything you want for money! And unfortunately, that’s never gonna change! Snoop don’t only use black women in his videos! White women will pill their clothes for the loot too! Its not just a black “art form”! If fact, white women are the ones who trail blazed the way for porn and bondage!

So, you make a good point, but you must broaden it to understand the gravity of the task! The mind set won’t change unless all women clean it up! I know some white women who will put on black face and run butt naked through the school yard at recess!

#52 YOU ARE SO ON POINT!!!!!! I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT NOTICED WHEN THE TEACHER MADE HER POINT OPRAH WAS RUDE.WHY NOT HAVE THE LUDAS THE 50CENTS AND JAY Z ON BEING THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MAKES THIS TYPE OF MUSIC BUT I HAVE TO AGRRE WITH THE SCHOOL TEACHER IT’S STARTS AT HOME.

MY ONLY ISSUE WITH THIS WHOLE THING IS THAT THEY COMPARING WHAT IMUS SAID TO THOSE GIRLS TO WHAT RAPPERS SAY.

I’M NOT SAYING THAT THESE RAPPERS ARE RIGHT BUT WHEN THEY SAY THOSE VULGER THINGS THEIR NOT SAYING IT TO ANY PARTICULAR PERSON.

IMUS ON THE OTHERHAND POINT OUT THAT THOSE GIRLS WERE NAPPY HEADED HOES.

YOU FEEL ME?

we need to juss stop blaming each other and come together and say we not gonna do this anymore. women are just as responsible as men a person can only do as much as you allow them to do. Yeah we have oprah and others to look up to but the women young kids see are the half naked women in videos. You don’t have to go to college to be like melissa ford its easy money to stand there half nude rather than going out and being like oprah it took hers yrs to get to a bill. melissa made a mill off one video. men have so many role models to look up to but they also have jeezy and jay-z u don’t have to go to college to be like them they sold drugs so why not I. Everybody wanna get rich quick nobody wants to work anymore even those who go to college drop out or don’t use they degree. I was getting a little upset with those girls from spellman b/c they are putting all the blame on men when alot of girls in videos do them for free ecspecially the ones that came on BET uncut. Buffie the body was found on the internet no one put a gun to her head. But men can’t be in the songs talkin about gold diggin ho’s and all this stuff when u out trickin in the strip club. women want good men men want good women. if we all set a standard for ourselves we wouldn’t have these discussion.

JUST A THOUGHT…….IMUS WAS FIRED FROM CBS BECAUSE OF THE BUSINESS RELATIONSHIPS HE COULD’VE JEPARDIZED. HOWEVER…….CBS IS OWNED BY VIACOM…..WHICH OWNS BET….WHICH OWNS MTV AND VH-1….WHO PROJECT THE SAME IDEALS THAT EVERYONE IS DISCUSSING HERE.. VIACOM AND NBC-UNIVERSAL, WHICH OWNS UMG….WHICH OWNS INTERSCOPE(BY THE WAY, INTERSCOPE HAS THE RADIO ON LOCK) WHICH OWNS AFTERMATH, SHADY, G- UNIT, ISLAND DEF JAM, DISTURBING THE PEACE, CASH MONEY, TERROR SQUAD….THE LIST GOES ON……NBC-UNIVERSAL AS WELL AS VIACOM WHICH COMBINED CONTROLS 98% OF THE IMAGES YOU BUY, SEE, HEAR, IS OWN BY GENERAL ELECTRIC AND THE CEO IS A 53 YEAR OLD CAUCASIAN OF GERMAN DECENT…….THE RAPPERS ARE JUST WORMS ON A VERY LONG HOOK. THESE IMAGES OF THE CULTURE ARE RUN BY WHITE COLLARS THAT KNOW NOTHING OF THE CULTURE. IT HAS BECOME BIGGER THAN THE CULTURE. THIS IS WHY REAL MC’S DON’T PUT ON THAT BLACK FACE PAINT AND GO TAP DANCE FOR THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR. THEY STAY INDEPENDENT……SUPPORT INDEPENDENT HIPHOP

Take their contracts, limit their exposure but trust me. You will still have a high rate of minority drop out, high rate of teenage pregnancy, and a high rate of males in prison. That panel made it but those are kids left behind by the educational system and poor parenting. teach your daughter to be a teacher and she will look down on stripping. support your child academically then he will put down the ball and become a doctor until then they wiil wan to be rappers and ballers

Haven’t read all the comments but when the girl from Spelmen said….(adlibbing) men in the club don’t deferentiate us from those hoes…..what really was she trying to say….anybody, anybody….

109. Meatloaf said:

88. Decysive ~ That was a big step that the Spelman women took when they told Nelly to keep steppin! The women on the Oprah show were not the main players to cancel the Nelly show, but the standard was set and it made “black national” news! These women were just brought in to be mouthpieces like Jesse and Al!

While I agree that they probably only get involved when its convenient, I do respect college students who spend their time in class and in the library studying. They can give back when they get something!
____________________________________________________

I respect your opinion but I’m going to have to say that’s a cop out. If these women can blame rappers for not leading by example, then they should atleast hold themselves to that same standard. And with the Nelly thing, yes, he should’ve been boycotted. However, they are defending who allowed herself to be sexually objectified. The fact that the female was a willing participant in the act NULLIFIES their whole argument.

America needs to find another scapegoat because as raunchy and classless as Hip Hop is, I will defend it from being persecuted as the root of all evil. I’m tired of hearing what rappers get away with saying. Rap music is just a reflection of what’s going on in America.

Misogyny will go on forever and ever regardless of whether it’s spit on sixteen bars or not. While Lady O is jumping on Blacks for standing against Imus, but not holding ourselves to the same standards, the same could be said for her stance against Hip-Hop. Women (and yes, I am a female) need to take responsibility for the fact that if wouldn’t allow men degrade us or stand for degradation, misogyny wouldn’t be as excused as it is. And if this a valid discussion about misogyny, how come Hugh Heffner isn’t there, or that guy from the “Girls Gone Wild” franchise? Why are they not being held accountable?

I hope this comment does not get lost in between all the others because this is a subject and dialogue our community needs to face. I saw both shows (twice actually) and I do feel that the issue was danced around on part two.

We can say all day long that the rappers shouldn’t say this or that and they have a responsibility. But truth be told, they only make whats in demand. If we, the consumers, stop buying and boycott or local radio stations that play the derogatory rap (not all rap), they I guarantee record execs will stop telling these artists to make this music. Where was Cathy Hughes on the show? She’s a BLACK WOMAN and the head of Radio One. She’s just as responsible as the record company’s, and rappers themselves.

And as for the videos, get off the rappers’ backs about the naked girls in the videos. We, as women have to say NO and teach and educate our young women on self respect. As long as there are girls lined up to be in videos, rappers and producers will continue to “employ” them.

I think it all starts with the women consumers. If we stop buying the music, do not allow our children to buy the music, and boycott radio, then everything else will fall into place and then we will be able to confrot the undelying problems with our community. But it all starts with US, not THEM.

In my opinion….I feel that if you don’t like message in Rap music…don’t waste your money, time or saliva on it.

As for these demeaning words towards the black community….comming from the black community….thats bullshit!

The word Nigga was given to African Americans by White people….the only problem was that instead of Black people being ashamed of it…they embraced it.

“Oh I’m nigga? Is that right? Okay so I’mma be a nigga….yo nigga, whats good? Thats my nigga right there!”

Nappy came from white folks too! Because it’s another demeaning word that was used to put down black people.
Some people embrace the word…some don’t! “Oh my hair is nappy to you? Fine, fuck you if you don’t like it…thats how god made me!”

Now for the word hoe…thats not African American Vernacular, it’s American Vernacular…it was a word used and created by both Black and White people! It’s an ugly word period. Nobody should use it against anybody! Period…

If Done Anus knew that already…the meanings these words held…why did he use it in a joke?

Simple…he is a Jack Ass! He is a grown ass man that knew what he was doing and being that he was white, he thought he could get away with it! He wouldn’t be sorry if he wouldn’t have been threatened to get fired!!!! So as for his apology!
Bullshit, I’m done with this Motherfucker can we move on? Please?

AS for Oprah…I’m mad I missed it! My Boo Boo Common was there….Damn night school!!!!!

im very opinionated on this…

we cant not blame hip-hop for everything….men call woman bitches/hoes because woman call woman bitches and hoes and that woman panel is really reallllly one sided thats why i got upset watchin this shit for the past 2 days

off subject too but we cant also blame crime on hip-hop too, its just delivery, if they gonna blame hip-hop, blame rock too

okay i dont listen to rap unless it’s on radio sometimes because it’s cencored, i dont want to listen to women be preffered to as a bitch or hoe, or listen to nigga this, nigga that, i’m gon shoot you, skeet,skeet. w.e mostly whenever in my school when i see someone listening to rap it’s usually some white kid who thinks they’re mad gangsta or some lame kids who think they are gangbangers. in result we end up having italian kids callin themselves niggas and irish kids, i swear some kids need some whoopass.
ne ways, so not everything needs to be blamed on the black community.

That’s a valid point LaShonda and I agree that the very artists I mentioned in my previous post might not have come. Yet, the issue or point of Oprah’s “town meeting” was to spark action. When she decided to do these shows to sorta “open the door” for conversation, I would have hoped that she would have been more aggressive with this age-old subject. Again, my issue is this: I just don’t see how you can advance the topic without the very people who keep the misogynistic cycle moving forward? And don’t get me wrong, I just don’t think the Ludas and 50s of the world should’ve been there. I think (real) movers & shakers from “Warner Music Group, EMI, Sony BMG, and Universal Music Group — who control about 70% of the world music market, and about 80% of the United States music market” should have been there too. But hopefully, this won’t be the end. Hopefully, O might give other rappers a platform. A platform that, I believe through reading various media stories, they are willing to take in order to defend themselves (which I don’t think they have to do, but the world needs to know that YOU (America) created us. (Oh wait, except for 50 cent who said: “ I couldn’t care less about Oprah or her show” and “I am actually better off having friction with her.”

Moving on.

I finally watched all six of the YouTube videos and I must say, although I’m glad she had the show, it just seems like blah, blah, blah. Folks interrupting folks, commercial break after commercial break, and I’m left wondering, have we really accomplished anything? We know censorship is not going to work. Canceling the contracts of various artists isn’t going to work. I’m almost willing to go out on a limp and say that nothing is going to change/make an artist stop saying b-this, ho-that, because that is their right. There’s so so so many different sides of Hip Hop and who am I to say “those rappers” can’t say that. Shoot, that’s what they’re a product of. If you change the environment/society, then maybe “those rappers” might not have a need to rap like that. (But we all know that society’s ills aren’t going to go away so easily. That’s a bigger problem and folks would rather go after the product of the problem rather than the problems themselves: poverty, joblessness, homelessness, drugs, low wages for entry-level jobs, crime, etc.) Besides those little things called Parental Advisory Labels protect “those rappers”. Like #64 mentioned, “the lyrics don’t offend me because they are not talking about me. People have to face it [there] are women in this world like that. And that’s their right to be that way”. And I agree wholeheartedly.

We as (mature) adults have the responsibility to ensure that our children know who they are. That music/artists DO NOT define them. That b-this, h-that has a place, but it is NOT considered acceptable language in various situations of life. Besides O herself has said she listens to hip hop: “From People.com: Earlier this month on a New York radio show, Winfrey, 52, responded to charges of her anti-hip-hop bias. Speaking to DJ Ed Lover, she said: “I listen to some hip-hop. You know, I’ve been accused of not liking hip-hop, and that’s just not true. I got a little 50 (Cent) on my iPod. I really do. Love In Da Club. … Love that, and you know, love Jay-Z, love Kanye (West), love Mary J. (Blige).”

So, I do believe that her criticism comes with love, I just hope that this doesn’t turn into a call for more censorship…. Okay, let me stop. Because this issue is an age-old one and nothing is gonna change it. I mean, just because music/videos are created, doesn’t mean you have to listen/watch. And if you DO listen/watch (and you’re an mature adult), then so be it. That’s your right. That’s the (ironic) beauty of being a citizen of this land of the free.

i have to agree with everything u said NETWORKING, this whole don imus thing came from hip hop and hip hop is to blame for all the degrading and disrespectful things us black women not only in america but all over the world have faced, all our fore parents came to the us as slaves , martin luther king, malcolm x, all them fought for us to get rights and now it’s like everything was a big waste because if we really cared all this won’t be happening right now

i know that in brazil, you go to jail just for calling a black person ‘negro’…

that is serious……..

Blame on hip-hop?Damn maybe we not getting the picture,its everybody’s fault.White men degrade black woman for years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Can we do something about that?Again we haven’t found the root to the problem.If you don’t want to listen to it, cut your ears or something.Theres millions of music genres out there.I listen to classical music time to time.Would you all be happy if all of this went away?So its hip-hops fault that mostly black people are in poverty?Is it hip-hop fault that women are in videos knowing it was their PERSONAL DECISION to do it?One person does not speak for all.We are all individuals.

Money talks…

I cant watch the clip but I heard Russell on WPGC talking about how Barack Obama (who is rallying with Al Sharpton to censor rap music on the airwaves) should investigate the “conditions, poverty, and midset” that cause these young men to feel and express themselves with the language they choose to use…. TOTAL BULLSHIT!!! just b/c ur poor doesnt mean you can degrade women and call ppl “bad names” that’s the most ass backwards thinking I’ve ever experienced thus far. Of course Russell would say that…he has MILLIONS invested in this industry…

In this world I feel that we’ve come so far, and are still so far behind!

I agree 100% with what Diane Weather said that it is up to the women to say NO when it comes to participating in these videos. If they boycott casting calls for videos then rappers will be forced to come up with new concepts. Rappers are only half the problem because they aren’t forcing these women to come to these videos. Obviously these ladies in the videos have low self-esteem plus they think that starring in a few videos will lead to bigger opportunities. In most cases it doesn’t.

After the Civil Rights Movement and once we got the same rights as whites, we just thought we had won the battle. Instead of continuing to fight, we all just went our seperate ways and looked out for self. Not understanding that only half the battle was won. So here we are today as a race at each others throats and tearing each other down.

Everyone has some valid points on here.

I’m neither an avid lover or hater of hip hop in terms of being immersed in the culture. However, I don’t think that ANY song or lyrics is the by product of someone else’s behavior.

I think lifestyles (good or bad) are reflected in your attitudes, culture, and yes, music. And everyone has a different experience that is heartfelt, PARTICULARLY when you refer to hip hop. There can be no generalities made with rap, because I can hear a song and not even think TWICE that they are referring to me. Censorship of any kind (and I don’t care for MUCH of what is on the radio right now) is the beginning of the end of the world as we know it.

I find it intriguing that they are worried about the ho-ism of women and they are not worried about the massacres and threats of men that also permeate the lyrics of these songs. . .I don’t see Oprah doing any summits on the plight of black men. She already has an audience that has preconcieved notions of our culture. This is not doing anything better if, in fact it’s biased, when journalism is in fact supposed to be enveloped in neutrality.

My question is, where is the solution. The solution eradicates the problem, and the problem envelopes itself and manifests itself, and sometimes that is through music. Just as AMI Jane said, most of this world has something against black men in GENERAL, and young black men IN SPECIFIC, bottom line.

This is a witch hunt. It’s starting to turn into a ‘Who Shot John’ and Jedi Mind trick, where the real cause (Imus and his free speech and the right, to say what he wants, even if it sucks), is getting trumped by Oprah and her goonies believing that Rap hates women.

@58—nope, it really makes “us” look worse to air our dirty laundry…that’s why I think Common was chosen as the “face” of the rapper…he’s more clean-cut in his lyrics than others, and to put a rapper on the air to represent hip hop that has songs like “Smack that” and “Pussy Poppin” or “Big Pimpin’”would look really really DUMB…and their lyrics would be all of the justification needed for a censory on the lyrics.

Also, I agree w/ all of the ppl that say that ppl must screen what they allow their children to watch. Ppl let the media raise their children and then wonder what went wrong.

Finally….there’s ABSOLUTELY no way in the heck that a SIXTY-SEVEN YEAR OLD WHITE MAN IS INFLUENCED BY HIP HOP…he jumped on the bandwagon after Meredith (from Millionaire) confronted Al Sharpton and pointed to hip hop and the blk community as a scapegoat and reasoning for what Imus said.

I know it’s her show, but O had to be rude to everybody who wasn’t saying what she wanted to hear….
Ok I agree with 156…well said

Oprah you’re only a week late on this! It’s a done deal, move on.. Buy all the nappy headed hoes perms.

man these white people think we got culture/social issues…look how dumb we look, cant agree on nothing

Dammit he was just passing the buck!!!! Okay if Hip Hop is degrading women…then lets get at Playboy, Hugh Hefner, lets strive to shut down all the porn shops in America, Lets get rid of smut magazines, lets do that!!!! Now Hip Hop has to be the blame for everything!!! I’m mad Done Anus even tried to pass the buck and bring somebody else down with him! Thats why his Ass got fired!

I am so glad that this door has been opened. For the longest, this issue has been the big pink elephant sitting in the room that no one has been willing to talk about. It’s a damn shame that it took a white man, that has repeatedly made offensive comments about minorities and women, to strike up the dialogue and really open up the floor for this discussion. I don’t think there is one person in particular that you can point the finger at for the widely accepted denegration of black women. Yes, we have been looked upon as less than human since our arrival from the shores of Africa, but does that okay it for OUR OWN BLACK BROTHERS TO DO IT TO US!? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Yes, some black women subject themselves to this type of marginalization when they sign up for these video shoots, but as the young women from Spelman said, that doesn’t mean that you can treat every black woman that way. It’s time that the black community address these issues, and have a come to Jesus meeting amongst ourselves, because that’s where it begins. If you don’t respect yourself, how in the world do you expect others to respect you!? There are some key questions that we, as a people, need to ask ourselves, and get answered before we dare to get angry about an old racist white man doing what young black men do on a daily basis. We have got to get on the same page. IT’s not a matter of who says it, it’s a matter of it being said, point black. We need to be offended and display this same outrage when it comes out of a white man’s mouth, a black man’s mouth, a black woman’s mouth, or any one else’s!

I am very impressed with Concretloop readers. Wow - I read all your essays and each one was fill with passion! I love a Post that can let educated black people talk and debate over a great topic.

I am so sick of Post about the Beyonces, Tyra’s and Jay-z’s of the World.

Thank you Concrete Loop for adding this Post to your Blog!

Also, I am going to Boycott Hip Hop Music.. This is a true story…

Last Month I was in my car driving my coworker to his house…I had my Luda CD in… I was shocked my co worker knew all the words….. Ho’s came up a couple of times in the songs… we then passed two black sisters standing outside.. and my coworker said look at these hoes.. I did not say anything… i thought in my mind, maybe he think all females are Hoes… So I did an experiment.. we then passed three white girls.. and I turned to him and said - look at those fine HOES.. He said ” what -those ladies are not Hoes.. I said why not. because he said they are white, and ONLY BLACK females are HOES.. I wanted to flip out, however I said why you are saying that.. he said” because everyone says that in the music”

Enough Said - I was done with Hip HOP over 2 months ago

117. Meatloaf said:
——————————————————————————–

110. samech said: “…I wonder what the Nation of Islam has to say…(Louis Frarrakan). Honestly, I am tired of Sharpton.”

======================================================

Louis Farrakan: “It all the fault of the white devil!” lol!

The nation os Islam treat women like bond slaves!

Jesse and Al are doing just fine!

———————————————–

Alot of the Great leaders are DEAD already!

Things aren’t going to change if those rappers who get their points across without the use of misogynistic lyrics don’t step up and say (i.e. Common who failed miserably at this opportunity to do so), “Dude, you can still tell your stories and not be negative while doing so.” I MEAN REALLY… do you have to say “hoe” to convey to the listener that you are talking about a woman of a questionable nature? If you want to be considered a true ARTIST, put some effort into your lyrics and become creative with the way you refer to certain things…that is what is wrong with hip hip right now…there are no true artists…back in the day, lyrics made you think and resonated with you…these days, I can’t even listen to them or distinguish who is who because they are unintelligent and the same shit…Kevin Liles, Russel Simmons, and the rest of their azzes are concerned about one thing…THEIR MONEY…

Let’s stop all this shit now.
Hip-hop does have some blame for what is going on right now. The words in rap are glamorized and people think its cool.
Something must be done about this whole situation.

on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 @ 12:42 pm

164. Ted Will said:
——————————————————————————–

I am very impressed with Concretloop readers. Wow - I read all your essays and each one was fill with passion! I love a Post that can let educated black people talk and debate over a great topic.

I am so sick of Post about the Beyonces, Tyra’s and Jay-z’s of the World.

Thank you Concrete Loop for adding this Post to your Blog!

Also, I am going to Boycott Hip Hop Music.. This is a true story…

Last Month I was in my car driving my coworker to his house…I had my Luda CD in… I was shocked my co worker knew all the words….. Ho’s came up a couple of times in the songs… we then passed two black sisters standing outside.. and my coworker said look at these hoes.. I did not say anything… i thought in my mind, maybe he think all females are Hoes… So I did an experiment.. we then passed three white girls.. and I turned to him and said - look at those fine HOES.. He said ” what -those ladies are not Hoes.. I said why not. because he said they are white, and ONLY BLACK females are HOES.. I wanted to flip out, however I said why you are saying that.. he said” because everyone says that in the music”

Enough Said - I was done with Hip HOP over 2 months ago

Bill Said:

That was a good story and a great lesson for our young black youth.

Caucasians are very impressionable, and not to bright…

Caucasian (as well as other Global nationalities) tend to believe the Images that we project on TV (Flavor of Love, I Love New York), as well as the Music that we produce as a community (50 Cent Ludachris, Snoop Dog)

Peace

@ MS H-Town. I think we let alot of things slide by saying “oh he wasn’t talking about me” I think it comes down to an ego/denial issue. As long as we know that that’s not who we are and we’re not being specifically called out then it’s ok to dance to it or sing along. But at the end of the day they are talking about us. For instance the Game talked so much shit about all these video vixens in his song and then tried to persuade them to be in the video by telling them it was just jokes and meant to be sarcastic. So does that take away from the fact that when you hear the song you think of these ladies as the ho’s he makes them out to be? Or when Gloria Valez is singing “you wouldn’t get far” it looks like she’s acknowledging that he’s speaking the truth? We need to stop settling for the okey doke cause the message is all the same. Like Kat Williams said he only says bitches cause he doesn’t know each name individually…

This discussion was very interesting.
I mean we deal with this very subject on a day to day basis, in these post, in the chat etc. People are just ignorant and thats the bottom line. Their children will be ignorant and its sad to say. Unless we as african americans, island folk etc,learn how to respect each other stop hating and really focus on progressing, other races will never respect us. I mean really how can we get mad.
A good percentage of black men dont believe back is beautiful. How the fuck can they at all have the nerve to even speak about imus being racist.Video chicks are light skinned and weavealicious or latino.

So I believe when WE start to believe we are beautiful, all shapes sizes and colors and respect each other, others will.

I am a young, black, educated female that is a huge hiphop fan. It’s hard to believe that the women who were representing from Spealman College really feel that way. It’s sad that some people went on Oprah to say what they thought she wanted to hear. Half of those women are the same one’s that dance and rock off the same songs that demean us. Let’s be honest we all are guilty of it.What mad me so upset was that it wasn’t once mentioned that these women have a choice to get on the videos and demean themselves no one holds a gun to their heads, so just as they had the rappers on the blast they should have these video vixens or video hoes. They must remember it starts with us, we have a choice to say No! I’m not going to degrade myself, if these females stand up and say no, we wouldn’t see females letting Nelly slide credit cards down the crack of their asses. It’s not just the rappers that degrade these women it’s us to. those women who represented Spelman can’t sit their a say that they never called another female a ho, we all are guilty. So we are also part of the blame, Oprah just wanted to take the oppurtunity to put hip hop on blast, she thought Kanye was a poet now he has a video with Game talking about women, I guess he won’t be invited on her show anymore. It’s hard for me to say this about us females , but right is right.

Did n e one else watch “Roots” on TV-1?

It was my first time (embarrassing to say that), but I felt like a complete ass for ever letting the word wench, or nigga (cuz it doesnt matter how it’s spelt) come out of my mouth…EVER!!!!!!!!

I should have e-mailed a couple of blog runners…maybe sum1 would have posted it…. It was an experience I will NEVER forget.

164. Ted Will .. very interesting

I’m glad we talking out our issues but it so way overdue.

—————-
Bill Said:

That was a good story and a great lesson for our young black youth.

Caucasians are very impressionable, and not to bright…

Caucasian (as well as other Global nationalities) tend to believe the Images that we project on TV (Flavor of Love, I Love New York), as well as the Music that we produce as a community (50 Cent Ludachris, Snoop Dog)

Peace

————–

Then I hate to say than we have a long way to go.Because as much as I thought people were open about other people I guess thats not the answer.I lived from Spain,Germany,Japan and France and I was treated with respect, they never treat me as if I was an object.I think if they see what they see in the streets, like women with limited clothes they might think like that,but I never dressed in little cute clothes to get attention.I have yet set an example for my little sisters because at the day and age its hard for a black female to feel left out.I know understand where you all are coming from, but I just saying don’t just point it at one person.

168. bill said:
——————————————————————————–

on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 @ 12:42 pm

164. Ted Will said:
——————————————————————————–

I am very impressed with Concretloop readers. Wow - I read all your essays and each one was fill with passion! I love a Post that can let educated black people talk and debate over a great topic.

I am so sick of Post about the Beyonces, Tyra’s and Jay-z’s of the World.

Thank you Concrete Loop for adding this Post to your Blog!

Also, I am going to Boycott Hip Hop Music.. This is a true story…

Last Month I was in my car driving my coworker to his house…I had my Luda CD in… I was shocked my co worker knew all the words….. Ho’s came up a couple of times in the songs… we then passed two black sisters standing outside.. and my coworker said look at these hoes.. I did not say anything… i thought in my mind, maybe he think all females are Hoes… So I did an experiment.. we then passed three white girls.. and I turned to him and said - look at those fine HOES.. He said ” what -those ladies are not Hoes.. I said why not. because he said they are white, and ONLY BLACK females are HOES.. I wanted to flip out, however I said why you are saying that.. he said” because everyone says that in the music”

Enough Said - I was done with Hip HOP over 2 months ago

Bill Said:

That was a good story and a great lesson for our young black youth.

Caucasians are very impressionable, and not to bright…

Caucasian (as well as other Global nationalities) tend to believe the Images that we project on TV (Flavor of Love, I Love New York), as well as the Music that we produce as a community (50 Cent Ludachris, Snoop Dog)

Peace

—————————————————-

Bill, whites are very impressionable…everything they see we have, hear, wear- they want. BITERS!!!!!.
What we need to do as a people- is to STOP sharing with every other culture except our own. You put one white girl in a video- she thinks she is the end all- be all- for her race, please! Asians don’t share with us- Middle Easterners don’t share with us, whites don’t either. Point is- we need to STOP making others feel so comfortable around us to- where as they can say anything. And if we are taking to someone outside or culture- lets not degrade ourselves. And keep the conversation to a minimum.

Bottom line is nobody wants to be held accountable. I was dissapointed by Russell and Kevin beating feet around the debate by glorifying what they do as if they are some type of Goodwill Ambassadors. So just because you give out a couple of happy meals and have a discussion that clears you of any wrong doing or responsiblility? Yeah…right. And then to acknowledge they are raising daughters in hip-hop as if their children are mingling with everyday young girls was they ulltimate slap in the kisser. SMH.

And may I just say that I hate Common for being the biggest hypocrite.

I would like to say it’s nice that Oprah and other media types want Hip Hop Artist to take responsibility for the degragation and humiliation of black woman. But its not just a hip hop thing, everyone needs to get involved. Stop fingerpointing and start solution seeking.

I do understand that we’ve allowed ourselves to be put on blast because of OUR music and expression. Yes we know pain, suffering and poverty but that’s not what’s in the videos, that’s not what’s displayed at these concerts and performances, it’s booty shaking, damn near naked females grinding on each other, stripper poles and everything else. We do need to first take responsibility for ourselves. I am 32 years old with a 14 year old son who worships hip hop. I cringe at a lot of the music he listens to but a lot of other times I make him cut it off. Not because I’m afraid of the influence it would have on him because I am raising my son not hip hop. Yet I personally have a problem with the lyrics as a black woman, it’s insulting, it’s degrading, it’s humiliating. No I’m not the gold-digger, no I’m not shaking my ass for dollars so some would say well they not talking about you. But you are. These other women they refer to are ALL OF OUR SISTERS, MOTHERS, DAUGHTERS, NIECES, ETC. We fell off black people! We don’t take care of each other and society knows that. We have lost our black unity and family bonds. But then we need to address the bigger issue. So how about we all start respecting ourselves and each other before we can keep demanding “others” too.

on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 @ 12:55 pm

172. Realwoman said:
——————————————————————————–

I am a young, black, educated female that is a huge hiphop fan. It’s hard to believe that the women who were representing from Spealman College really feel that way. It’s sad that some people went on Oprah to say what they thought she wanted to hear. Half of those women are the same one’s that dance and rock off the same songs that demean us. Let’s be honest we all are guilty of it.What mad me so upset was that it wasn’t once mentioned that these women have a choice to get on the videos and demean themselves no one holds a gun to their heads, so just as they had the rappers on the blast they should have these video vixens or video hoes. They must remember it starts with us, we have a choice to say No! I’m not going to degrade myself, if these females stand up and say no, we wouldn’t see females letting Nelly slide credit cards down the crack of their asses. It’s not just the rappers that degrade these women it’s us to. those women who represented Spelman can’t sit their a say that they never called another female a ho, we all are guilty. So we are also part of the blame, Oprah just wanted to take the oppurtunity to put hip hop on blast, she thought Kanye was a poet now he has a video with Game talking about women, I guess he won’t be invited on her show anymore. It’s hard for me to say this about us females , but right is right.

Bill Said:

Can I ask you ask question ???

How many woman do YOU PERSONALLY KNOW that let guys slide credit cards down their ass ?
Seriously,
How Many Woman do YOU PERSONALLY KNOW that behave in a “Bitch or Hoe” Catagory ????

I know with me the answer would be 0.
I don’t personally know any bitchs or hoes…

Is it POSSIBLE that this is a small segment of society (Stripper, Gold Diggers Video Chicks) that the Rappers are singing about??

I mean when was the last time you went to the club, and I guy called a female a bitch or a hoe
Seriously…

Its not just hip hop. His parents didnt educate him
(Bill’s co-worker). We(us parents) are responsible for teaching our children how to respect women and black men. If I constantly bash black men I am raising my son to believe he’s good for nothing he will never respect himself or other black men. School cant teach our kids everything, school gives our children and future leaders of this world the basics. Parents are responsible for the rest. ITS A BIG RESPONSIBILITY, SO THOSE WHO DONT HAVE CHILDREN, DONT HAVE CHILDREN THINK ABOUT IT. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR CHILD AND YOUR CHILDS ACTIONS.

145. Decysive said: “…If these women can blame rappers for not leading by example, then they should atleast hold themselves to that same standard.”

=====================================================

Wait a minute Decysive, the Spelman woman led a successful boycot against Nelly! They refuse to purchase or dance to degrading music! They offered to help Benjamin Chavis and the hip-hop coalition in anyway that they could! They went on National TV and denounced negative rap before all their friends and the world! And, most importantly to dispell the image, they are pursuing college degrees to better themselves! What more do you want from them?

You’re starting to sound a little like Imus calling them these “chicks”! What do you really want to call them? You have an elitist attitude! I don’t see the Spelman women setting a bad example! Women all over the world should be speaking out, rather than pointing fingers at each others!

——————————————————

“However, they are defending who allowed herself to be sexually objectified. The fact that the female was a willing participant in the act NULLIFIES their whole argument.”

I don’t recall them defending women who participate in the acts! I must have missed that! Or….you read more into it! Someone else can clerify that for us, but in the mean time, I’ll say it again:

men and women will continue to do discusting things for money! People like New York and Flavor Flav will say and do anything a man or women tells them to say or do if their getting paid!

So, society may never rid itself of the oldest profession know to man! But, as the Spelman women have shown us, we can however, boycott the businesses who sponsor the companies who employ the people who frequent those establishments.

Don’t come down on yo sisters like Imus did the Rutger women! They showed courage for putting a face and soul behind the negative sterotype! All they are doing is saying look, we’re young ladies who want better for ourselves! I know you could see that! Don’t play the devils advocate! Never advocate anything for the devil! Don’t expect Lil Mo and Lil Kim to speak out!

Where’s the cop out now? Hip-hop has a negative and a positive side to it! The negative side needs to be cleansed! Without ground rules, white folks will continue playing dumb like they don’t know what to say and when to say it! So, take a little time to listen to everyone from your sisters at Spelman who want to be involved, to your sisters at Rutgers who became involved without a choice!

No ones coppin out!

I’ve been on the boycott of denegrating rap music for a while now. I don’t think common was the best example of “bad” hip-hop to have on that panel yesterday. He is one of the few that doesn’t scream, “bitch,” this and “ho,” that in his music. And it is still good music. I wish that India Arie had’ve said more yesterday. You could tell she was just burnin up in her seat. I sincerely feel that we as black women have got to demand more from our brothers. WE have got to STOP dancing to this bafoonery. WE have got to STOP supporting music that depicts us in a way that no human being should be depicted. IT BEGINS WITH US! I used to listen to it, download it, go to the club and shake my booty to it. I’m guilty. But when you know better, you do better. One day, I had a moment of clarity. I was sitting in my car, listening to the radio, and even the “clean” version was offensive. I was disgusted, and I just made up my mind that this was not for me.

i would like to see old school hip-hop and the new school hip hop panel….i wanna know what they think cause the point of hip-hop changed since then….

@165-TED WILL, while the very thought of that situation made my skin crisp, as you can see it was a wake up call for you. Once again to the hip hop defenders who think, “oh no don’t blame them.” I guess they will need a reality check as well to see how others around them look at us.
Co-sign with the last few posts!
BILL, I agree…I don’t associate with bitches and hoes and haven’t really been in contact with any female that I would refer to in those terms

Everyone wants to blame hip-hop for everything and its getting ridculous.

It’s not all on the artists alone, but on the people that promote the music that’s destructive, and the women that dont mind going to shake their booties and do all sort just to get money or to get recognized.

Women are so much to blame for their degradation because we allow that sort of thing to happen. If some women didnt go around being loose then a lot of rappers really wouldnt have much to talk about.

Parents should be responsible for what their children do and not try to place blame on other people.
If you raise your child up to know the right things to do, and how to act etc. their most likely going to go with that, unless for whatever reason they become terribly misguided and lose all sense of morality and their conscious.
If people taught their kids from the get go how to treat each other, how to treat women/men, how to respect yourself, then we wouldnt have this problem to begin with.

I’m 17 and I dont have kids but I do have a younger brother, and he looks up to people in the household, not people outside for guidance on what to do, and he imitates what he’s likely to see happening in the house, and knows how to behave because it’s been ingrained in him, and he’s only 10.

I hate that Oprah didnt seem to even want to understand where Common, Russell Simmon, Kevin Liles and Ben Chavis were coming from, and it was like she was just attacking them.

Hmmmmmmmm what do the Spelman girls think.They say the go to the club so they must been listening to it.

First I want to say that I commend the young ladies at Spellman College they were so elegant and classy.

Russell Simmons and the entire get the thumbs down.

Russell calling every rapper a poet is a bitch move.

Forget upseting the rappers..the garbage they are polluting the air waves with needs to stop. Kevin Lyles formely known as star jones (weight transformtion)needs to re-sign since he can’t contriol his music acts.

Thank you Angel for this post.

I’m delighted to see how many of us have great opinions.

I want to know who is doing the fucking and who is getting fucked at warner Bros. Kevin Lyles or the artist. Russell doesn’t need to be the fore runner for the Black community because he support rappers freedom of speech although young ladies end up paying for it with the constant name calling.

Russll simmons talks about proverty and still sells $50 dollars Phat Pharm jeans.wtf Get this clown off the stage get marbury a real dude up there!

I was disappointed but not surprised at the same time. Disappointed that Tuesday’s panel consisted of some of the most powerful men in hip-hop, yet they ducked and dodged the real problem. But then again I wasn’t surprised because this deameaning culture is their bread and butter.

I’m gonna be hated years to come for this opinion, but here goes nothing:

Greedy and attention seeking women are mostly responsible for how black women are depicted in this country and around the world. We really need to stop pointing the fingers at the people who are exploiters (us men) and point fingers at the supposed exploited (those women). If women would have more respect for themselves and stop trying to make a buck off their assets there wouldn’t be a market for this garbage. Flash some cash and you’ll have a woman posing in King, Playboy, XXL and videos and say they are doing whatever it takes to “make it”. Case in point, look at whenever Deelishis or Ice-T’s wife are pictured ass-up on this site and women are claming to “flaunted it” and “get that money, honey”. Whatever happened to being “poor but proud” or living in our means?

Women also need to watch who they give credit to for being supposedly smart business women. Example… Kimora Lee isn’t as smart as you think she is. She is an opportunist who took advantage and ran with it, yet people give her credit cause she has a clothing line and made butt loads of cash. But how did she get there? Do you really think she loved Russell for his looks, or saw an opportunity for advancement off of his success?

Bottom line…stop always blaming men for demoralizing the female gender. Accept responsibility women for your own bad seeds for giving you good women this stigma.

Lady kay are you serious. Please tell me Ashon Kuther wrote that!

You are totally missing the point. Nobody on that panel owned up to really anything. excpet what the white man did to African American women. All they talked about was the past the rapes the racial epithy etc.

Not the responsiblity they have as being a CEO who sign the acts and gives the green light on music before it hits the airwaves.

what do you mean WE? MORE like THEY need to stop allowing themselves to degrade themselves, which generally gives black woman a bad name.
But honestly, you can’t stop them. benjamins and never stop people from selling they soul to the devil.

kmniles said:
——————————————————————————–

I’m gonna be hated years to come for this opinion, but here goes nothing:

Greedy and attention seeking women are mostly responsible for how black women are depicted in this country and around the world. We really need to stop pointing the fingers at the people who are exploiters (us men) and point fingers at the supposed exploited (those women). If women would have more respect for themselves and stop trying to make a buck off their assets there wouldn’t be a market for this garbage. Flash some cash and you’ll have a woman posing in King, Playboy, XXL and videos and say they are doing whatever it takes to “make it”. Case in point, look at whenever Deelishis or Ice-T’s wife are pictured ass-up on this site and women are claming to “flaunted it” and “get that money, honey”. Whatever happened to being “poor but proud” or living in our means?

Women also need to watch who they give credit to for being supposedly smart business women. Example… Kimora Lee isn’t as smart as you think she is. She is an opportunist who took advantage and ran with it, yet people give her credit cause she has a clothing line and made butt loads of cash. But how did she get there? Do you really think she loved Russell for his looks, or saw an opportunity for advancement off of his success?

Bottom line…stop always blaming men for demoralizing the female gender. Accept responsibility women for your own bad seeds for giving you good women this stigma.

Bill Said:

If I wasn’t married, I would ask you out on a date…

I CoSign 101%

PREACH kmniles !!!!!!

@ Lady K the disappointing fact is that all of the men didn’t come off as fathers they came off ass greedy coprate men. Who are exploiting the lack of education from artist. Russell said it himself that most of the acts he sign aren’t educated.

It’s hard to say in words what u wish u could say face to face.

I wish there was a visual/physical way everybody could discuss this event instead of on a forum.

Um, to #22, I had a lot of problems with your post. First, let me start by saying that yes there is a double standard. Imus got fired and he should’ve been fired, and I’m sure 98% of all rappers should be fired for the same thing but what many don’t understand is: The only thing these businesses are worried about is money. How can they get the most money? Who can they target and get the most money from? Morality has no place in business. Big business is cut throat and doesn’t care about double standards.

To #22, Eminem is still making multimillion dollars and still recording because of….you guessed it, MONEY! Eminem brings in revenue the average rapper wouldn’t! Because Eminem crosses color lines and both black and white people buy his music and because he brings Shady and Aftermath records so much money, he still has his deal and still makes his MONEY.

About the point about the club in Las Vegas. I don’t see the connection. What does that have to do with anything???

All those rappers you mentioned like D4l, Fabo, Nelly, Snoop, Akon do not owe apologies. Now, I’m not saying that calling women bitches is not wrong, because it is, but they don’t owe apologies because of the first amendment, which is free speech. I would hate it if Imus called me a nigga, because of the morality that is involved in it. But, he wouldn’t owe me an apology because he can say whatever it is he wants, its how I react to it.

Also, black women aren’t the ones who purchase the bulk of rap music so if they boycott rap music, they wouldn’t put a huge dent in record sales causing the companies to fire their rap artist. The target audience is pre-teen to teenage boys. And if the record companies and the rappers can grab their attention and get them to buy, then they get paid. If teenage boys stop buying cd’s, a huge dent would emerge in record sales, causing the companies to come up with a new idea or to fire their artists. That is all they are concerned about. Record companies and big businesses are only concerned about money and its transactions. Whether or not they offend someone or cross the morality line is irrelevant to them. They are only worried about money! Sorry if that hurts, but reality is harsh. I’m just trying to keep it real and tell it how it is

We can’t blame too short, snoop dogg or any rap artist for anything because IF WE AS CONSUMERS DIDNT BUY THEIR ALBUMS, guess what, they would be forced to switch up their game right? We would have better music if we supported the artist that are not talking about ice, rice, ass, and bitches.

*****************FROM NOW ON BOOTLEG**************

191. kmniles said:
——————————————————————————–

I’m gonna be hated years to come for this opinion, but here goes nothing:

Greedy and attention seeking women are mostly responsible for how black women are depicted in this country and around the world. We really need to stop pointing the fingers at the people who are exploiters (us men) and point fingers at the supposed exploited (those women). If women would have more respect for themselves and stop trying to make a buck off their assets there wouldn’t be a market for this garbage. Flash some cash and you’ll have a woman posing in King, Playboy, XXL and videos and say they are doing whatever it takes to “make it”. Case in point, look at whenever Deelishis or Ice-T’s wife are pictured ass-up on this site and women are claming to “flaunted it” and “get that money, honey”. Whatever happened to being “poor but proud” or living in our means?

Women also need to watch who they give credit to for being supposedly smart business women. Example… Kimora Lee isn’t as smart as you think she is. She is an opportunist who took advantage and ran with it, yet people give her credit cause she has a clothing line and made butt loads of cash. But how did she get there? Do you really think she loved Russell for his looks, or saw an opportunity for advancement off of his success?

Bottom line…stop always blaming men for demoralizing the female gender. Accept responsibility women for your own bad seeds for giving you good women this stigma.
—————————————————-

LOL- FINE TALK!!!

“Life for me aint been no Crystal Stairs”

165. samech said: “…Alot of the Great leaders are DEAD already!”

=====================================================

Ahhhh yeah but, I’m here to tell you that the Greatest Leader died, but He didn’t stay in the grave! He rose on the third!! That’s enough to make J.Lewis start speaking in an unknown tongue!

I really do believe that we must change the way we think about leaders! Then, we can start discerning right from wrong and make sound decisions as people!
So, don’t ever forget who our True Leader is…Jesus!

About the O show, most of the guests behaved as I expected, including and I hate to say it, Common…who in my estimation TOTALLY dropped the ball. He had a rare opportunity to show people that positive rap CAN be done in a way that appeals to the mass, ie with tight lyrics and beats. Instead, he rode the wave with the IDIOTS sitting on stage with him. What a shame… And I stand by my opinion that this b.s. “secret” meeting with industry heads is just that–b.s. But I think it became obvious yesterday that we shouldn’t put too much faith in Simmons/Chavis/Liles types, i.e. the apologists. Same goes for the hypocrite radio execs like the Cathy Hughes (who had the nerve to say Obama wasn’t “black” enough while her azz provides the forum for these rappers to showcase their buffoonery and cast Blacks in that light for the rest of the world to see). Nope, true reform will come from the CONSUMERS. We have to form an all-out assault against the enemies WITHIN first. Hit them in their pockets (cuz money seems to be their god at this point) and their azzes will have no choice but to get the hell out of the way for REAL “artists” and musicians to steer this rich Black culture back home.

Wassup TWWWWIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNN!

I was thinking:
….Just last week Angel Did a Post about that little cute Dominician Girl from 106 & park (I think her name is Rosi) being on the cover of King Magazine…

Everytime I go to the Grocery Store, and look at the Magazine Rack, I either see Janet Jackson telling us how nasty she is, Kecia Cole bearing all her goodies, Ciara, Rihanna, or Beyonce posed provocatively…

THEN there are Magazines that feature The Latest Video Chick (King Magazine, XXL Magazine) with the standard Butt Shot…

I wonder what goes through Caucasians Minds when they see these magazines (that cater to young black youth) in the Grocery Stores..

The Thing that comes to MY mind is that THIS is why we as a community have the LARGEST AIDS INFECTION RATE out of all the other demographics
*Black Men make up 42 % of those infected by AIDS..Black Females make up 56% of those infected by AIDS….Blacks only make up 13% of the United States Population, yet Black Americans account for almost HALF of those affected by AIDS..

Why is THAT ??

We can’t blame That on Hip Hop !!!

Blacks need to accept responsibility for the ills of our communities.

it’s been 40 years since Malcolm X was killed.
37 years since Martin Luther King has been killed.

What have we REALLY accomplished in 40 years ??

Oh yeah, we have nice homes, fat rides, every credit card imaginable…

But our inner city communities are in maniac mode.
Black on Black Crime, Drug Dealing, Gang Banging..

This is OUR Fault.
The White man didn’t do it..
We did

Black People need to learn Abstinance, Refrain from excessive Drugs & Alcohol, or learn to use condoms..

A lot of Black Men need to stop lying about their sexuality, and make a decision as to whether they are gay or not.
* I think that DL Guys should get the DEATH PENALTY in Jail for infecting our Clean Black Woman..
Nothing is worse than a undercover Homosexual…That’s Criminal, tragic and Suicidal !

Peace

@ Samech, I see you used a quote from Langston Hughes, now that is some real poetry!!!

*********************************************

Now this topic was the show down I’ve waiting for…! for a long time now we have been avoiding the music content.

i must say i am disappointed with the panel’s response,
you would of thought that people in their position and experience would have at least come out with something better than that!

I mean Russell Simmons comments on the worst poverty in America looking like Shanty houses/towns, that may be true, However he is the one making money out of the conditions these rappers come from. ! thats just exploitation!! and he attempts to justify it?!!?!!

I really don’t get him?!!?!! i don’t feel Russell had anything constructive to say at all. Maybe he should of just stayed home.
***************************************************

I took the time to listen to Rap (not the clean versions) which I will admit I don’t really do too often In other words I went into my Husband’s Cd collection & sure enough there are some issues But damn It’s simple If I didn’t like what I heard I turned it off. Black and white issues will be here long after Don Imus long after they stop rapping about switching em up. The Truth is everyone is in need of change. Besides that everyone in my family is forced to listen to the backyardigans Cd at our 4 year old’s request.

AMI JANE ….how is Oprah a sell out when she’s going right to the source of the problem? the root. you have to start at the beginning and work your way up.
its a chain reaction.

hi twinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

“IF WE AS CONSUMERS DIDNT BUY THEIR ALBUMS”

==================================================
We don’t hardly buy their albums now! The majority of the sales (86%) come from white males and Mexicans! Snoop and nem wouldn’t be so rich, if they relied on us to buy they ish! Black kids already do the bootleg thing!

The problem now is, for every Snoop and Lil Mo who we get to clean it up, there will be five more Bow Wows and Lil Kims more than willing to take their place and say whatever the market will bare!!

The title of this blog is slanted! Oprah’s show was about Def Jam, Bad Boys and Phat Farm! Not Imus in the middle!

#65….thanks for the link…it was a lot more interesting and realistic than the entire panel on Oprah….but of course they wouldn’t have those people on there

Bill said:
A lot of Black Men need to stop lying about their sexuality, and make a decision as to whether they are gay or not.
* I think that DL Guys should get the DEATH PENALTY in Jail for infecting our Clean Black Woman..
Nothing is worse than a undercover Homosexual…That’s Criminal, tragic and Suicidal !

Peace
———————————————
cosigns…thanks

trinib where did you get that picture? daaaaaaaaymmmmn?

194. bill said:
——————————————————————————–

kmniles said:
——————————————————————————–

I’m gonna be hated years to come for this opinion, but here goes nothing:

Greedy and attention seeking women are mostly responsible for how black women are depicted in this country and around the world. We really need to stop pointing the fingers at the people who are exploiters (us men) and point fingers at the supposed exploited (those women). If women would have more respect for themselves and stop trying to make a buck off their assets there wouldn’t be a market for this garbage. Flash some cash and you’ll have a woman posing in King, Playboy, XXL and videos and say they are doing whatever it takes to “make it”. Case in point, look at whenever Deelishis or Ice-T’s wife are pictured ass-up on this site and women are claming to “flaunted it” and “get that money, honey”. Whatever happened to being “poor but proud” or living in our means?

Women also need to watch who they give credit to for being supposedly smart business women. Example… Kimora Lee isn’t as smart as you think she is. She is an opportunist who took advantage and ran with it, yet people give her credit cause she has a clothing line and made butt loads of cash. But how did she get there? Do you really think she loved Russell for his looks, or saw an opportunity for advancement off of his success?

Bottom line…stop always blaming men for demoralizing the female gender. Accept responsibility women for your own bad seeds for giving you good women this stigma.

Bill Said:

If I wasn’t married, I would ask you out on a date…

I CoSign 101%

PREACH kmniles !!!!!!

…………………………………………….

Well I’m glad we agree on something Bill, but if we went on a date, that would mean we’re gay, bi or on the DL. I thought I made it clear with my post I was a man, lol.

All these women are grown who appear in the videos and such. It’s society and others who call them video ho’s when the term is video model or video girl.

And they do get paid, maybe not well, but they do get paid to appear in the videos.

Also - everyone keeps bringing up Nelly. Tipdrill was marketed to adults on an adult video show. The women in the video was paid, professional dancers & strippers. He was coming to Spelman as a man trying to find a cure or someone compatible with his sister and other’s and doing a bone marrow drive. He wasn’t there to rep his music but to save a life. I respect their opinions and the right to say it but that was the wrong time & place to do it IMO. Who’s to say what number of people who would have ween to the Bone Marrow Drive and would have been a match and saved someone’s life.

Why is it that all of Nelly’s as well as other’s like Ludacris’ more positive works and charitable acts not talked about and defended. This discussion is making me crazy b/c a lot of these people don’t admittedly listen to rap or hip-hop and are going by an older, more archaic view.

Sure what’s played and popular is not the best but go to the radio stations and request more positive songs. Not just Common or Talib Kweli but Nelly’s more positive rap and lyrics or even Jay-Z’s or Ludacris. No one does b/c that’s “soft”.

That’s the problem. Everyone wants to point the finger but they don’t want to do what it takes to show that all rap and hip hop isn’t bad.

Hip Hop and the Hip Hop culture is being made to be a scapegoat. The question is - who’s going to stand up and defend it? All of it - the good and the bad.

To be an activist and a champion for justice you have to defend what’s good and what’s bad out of something. Not just pick and choose the nice or naughty bits that suit you.

Another thought -

what about the barrage of ghetto, street, urban, hip hop fiction that readers are devouring and constantly makes the essence bestseller list?

Isn’t that a problem too? Or is it just hip hop and music? Isn’t that a part of the “hip hop culture”?

If you’re going to attack something then shouldn’t you point out everything that’s wrong with it. The books, movies, music, etc not just what you don’t like.

No one mentions the books but in one in particular - Every Thug Needs A Lady - 2 of the girls are pregnant and smoking pot. But no one mentions that.

It’s easy to attack the artist and music but whose really in control.

The solution to this issue is not just one thing. First, we need to stop bashing each other–even in this forum. We should respect the right of each of us to have our own opinions and perspective on this and other issues within our community. I’m glad Oprah chose to focus on this because it needed to be discussed publicly. I probably wouldn’t have known about the town hall meeting if she hadn’t televised it and I’m glad she had reps from most angles of the issue. That said, I wish that some others that have bashed her (Ice Cube, Ludacris, etc.) would have shown up. I, for one, believe the offer was at least extended to Luda since she had no problem calling out James Frey for messing with her reputation. Just a thought….

That said, I think we need to focus on respect, particularly self-respect. Respect is such a big thing in hip hop culture but a lot of the women in the videos don’t respect themselves enough to say “No” to perpetuating the stereotype of the anamalistically sexual black woman. The rappers don’t have enough self-esteem or respect to stop feeling that they need to promote a certain lifestyle to seem adequate to the masses. A lot of the rappers that push “making it rain” and urge us to “shake your money maker” (like that’s all black women/women have to offer the world) are unattractive or not physically representative of strong secure men. Luda, bless his bones, is a really short dude and may feel insecure that and feel the need to buy women or “get back” at the sistas who dissed him back in the day. Same goes for the Cash Money guys and so on. They are not truly powerful in the grand scheme of things so they attempt to subjugate women to a lower status and throw that new money around on worthless things (diamond grills, anyone?) to feel stronger in the world. Poor things don’t have a clue.

We ,as elders to our youth (children, neices, nephews, cousins, etc.), have a responsibility to our ancestors, ourselves and them to give them the tools so they can decide for themselves what’s appropriate. School them and they’ll say like my little 8-yr old cousin does “I don’t like that music that my daddy plays in the car sometimes because they say a lot of ‘bad words and stuff’ in them.” –And yes, I’ve told her dad to chill on that in her presence (which I could since I changed both of their diapers, LOL.– If we stopped supporting these “artists” by going to their shows (where they make a lot of dough since the labels make the most on the masters/ringtones/licensing, etc.) and buying their clothing, they would switch up to something else because it would no longer PAY. They would lose the big houses, the 57 cars they don’t even drive, the grills and be forced (perhaps) to produce art instead of garbage.

To all the concreteloopers: Peace & wisdom

SEABREEZE you go girl…I think ur one of the few ppl to get the point if all this.

Someone said “lifestyles (good or bad) are reflected in your attitudes, culture, and yes, music”….The problem is that Hip Hop is being represented as black culture…”Bitches, hoes, nigga” is what other races aound the WORLD, not just the US, think black culture is all about..The reason:

It’s being forced to us by Corporate America…The Problem? The problem is that we as a black community are ACCEPTING it…Thats the problem..

I dont want to censor rappers, but why is a “make is rain on them hoes” video being shown on a TV show (106 & park) that is being marketed to teens/children, which aires right when students get out of school? Why are we standing for this?

Good parenting is important, but remember, not all children have parents or have good parents…and those children, who are being raised by what is being feed to them, have to live in society with your children…Your child could one day be shoot or raped by a child who was brought up with that gansta mentality it affects us as a community, as a race, not as individuals..

kmniles said:
Well I’m glad we agree on something Bill, but if we went on a date, that would mean we’re gay, bi or on the DL. I thought I made it clear with my post I was a man, lol.

Bill Said:

This is embarrising…
I thought you were a female.
Sorry.
I’m as straight as they come….

on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 @ 2:06 pm

213. Candy said:
——————————————————————————–

Another thought -

what about the barrage of ghetto, street, urban, hip hop fiction that readers are devouring and constantly makes the essence bestseller list?

Isn’t that a problem too? Or is it just hip hop and music? Isn’t that a part of the “hip hop culture”?

Bill Said:
True !!
Cosign 101 %

Oprah is such a bully, lol. I always get a kick out of how she always is gung ho to have black people on her show when there is an opportunity to confront and attack black men. Then when she faces a black man that can refute her bullshit, she edits his comments out of the show. I’m sure that she has venom for Imus but that’s just a smoke screen for her beef with the black man. I understand the sister was raped and I applaud her ability to overcome that. At the same time she’s a lesbian and refuses to admit it and tries to cover her bitterness towards black men. I’m still not convinced that Steadman Graham is an actual person. He might be an automated robot that she uses to accompany her to certain functions, lol.

It’s funny what Imus said about the term “nappy headed hos” starting in the black community. Did it? Lol. I love how caucasians always try to spin and contort the blame to blacks when they get caught in their racism. I had respect for Imus’s honesty until he said that because then he reverted back to being a damn serpent. Hip hop has only been around for 30 years so what was the excuse before that? Is his contention that whites only started using slurs for blacks from hip hop onward?

If the black woman is tired of how she is being portrayed then you have to start with your own conduct. Just like there are weak black men, there are hoes. That’s real life. Why is it that the black man can get thrown over the hood of a police car, incarcerated for a crime he didn’t commit, be the last hired and the first fired, but Oprah doesn’t feel compelled to have a show on that? I know, because the black man is the devil, right? Lol.

As far as the things that black men say in rap music, what comes out of those brothers is reflective of what has been put in. No one on the planet earth is more maligned and castigated than the black man. Not the black woman, no one. So if these brothers are told from infancy to adulthood that “they ain’t shit, ain’t never gonna be shit”, “you’re stupid, you’re ugly”, “you’re too dark, you’re too light”, do you think that these brothers are going to make uplifting music? Then many of these brothers note the difference in how they get treated by black women after they make it big as opposed to before and it stands out as fake. Only a prostitute or “ho” will change her conduct towards you based on how much money a man has. Those brothers put 2 and 2 together. It doesn’t make it right but it is real.

If black people want to address how we’re perceived and how we perceive and treat each other than attack the source, not the product. Hip hop, like all music, is a form of expression. How the hell can you tell someone how they “should feel”. That’s ridiculous. You have to address why black men are angry but that won’t happen because people don’t care why black men are angry. We have to have a nationwide issue on how the black woman feels about being called a ho by some old white man though.

WHY U ALWAYS PROTESTING YOUR STRAIGHTNESS?????HMMMM???ALWAYS REPEATING THAT FACT AND WISHING DEATH ON DL BROTHAS?ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN?OBVIOUSLY NOT!THIS IS WHY BLACKS NEVER GET ANYWHERE. EVEN THE EDUCATED ONES LIKE YOU ARE STILL IGNORANT. YOUR DL BROTHERS WILL REMAIN DL AS LONG AS THEY KNOW PEOPLE LIKE YOU WISH DEATH ON THEM. YET YOU ARE THE ONLY MAN I’VE KNOWN WHOS OFFERED TO LEAVE HIS WIFE FOR ANOTHER MAN ON A BLOG LOL

Wait a minute Decysive, the Spelman woman led a successful boycot against Nelly! They refuse to purchase or dance to degrading music! They offered to help Benjamin Chavis and the hip-hop coalition in anyway that they could! They went on National TV and denounced negative rap before all their friends and the world! And, most importantly to dispell the image, they are pursuing college degrees to better themselves! What more do you want from them?
_______________________________________________

Did I not say that he should be boycotted? I am in no way trying to excuse him OR Hip Hop for that matter, I merely expressing what I believe is the fault of their argument. If Hip Hop artists need to be more responsible to the community around them, why can’t college students, business people ectera do the same? You don’t have to be rich to see a teenage black girl exploiting herself or allowing herself to be exploited to want to mentor her.
_____________________________________________
You’re starting to sound a little like Imus calling them these “chicks”! What do you really want to call them? You have an elitist attitude! I don’t see the Spelman women setting a bad example! Women all over the world should be speaking out, rather than pointing fingers at each others!
_________________________________________________

You’re starting to read into this too much. I refer to everyone, who is a female, as chick. It’s a habit and is not meant as any form of disrespect. I take a great personal offense to you saying I sound like Imus because I am nothing if not a strong, proud and opinonated Black Woman. And as far as being an “elitist” attiude, where are you drawing that from? I have a difference in opinion from the ladies on that panel. If you ask me, I think it’s elitist to hold men ENTIRELY responsible for behavior we condone and participate in. That is not direct at the Women of Spelman, that’s women in general.
——————————————————

“However, they are defending who allowed herself to be sexually objectified. The fact that the female was a willing participant in the act NULLIFIES their whole argument.”

I don’t recall them defending women who participate in the acts! I must have missed that! Or….you read more into it! Someone else can clerify that for us, but in the mean time, I’ll say it again:

men and women will continue to do discusting things for money! People like New York and Flavor Flav will say and do anything a man or women tells them to say or do if their getting paid!
________________________________________________

Excuse me if they did get on her, I personally never heard anything about them addressing her role in the act. I agree.

________________________________________________
So, society may never rid itself of the oldest profession know to man! But, as the Spelman women have shown us, we can however, boycott the businesses who sponsor the companies who employ the people who frequent those establishments.
_________________________________________________

Society will never rid itself of misogyny either. The root of the problem is us as women in general. When stop allowing ourselves to be exploited and when we teach younger women to recognize & fight exploitation, we will be able to stand. But what good is it to defend women who won’t defend themselves? We have to teach self worth. And Kudos to the women of Spelman who have boycotted Hip Hop and hopefully they will do a braud outreach to teach those who could really benefit from their leadership and guidance.

___________________________________________________
Don’t come down on yo sisters like Imus did the Rutger women! They showed courage for putting a face and soul behind the negative sterotype! All they are doing is saying look, we’re young ladies who want better for ourselves! I know you could see that! Don’t play the devils advocate! Never advocate anything for the devil! Don’t expect Lil Mo and Lil Kim to speak out!
__________________________________________________

I’m not playing “devils advocate” in any sense and in my opinion that was another offensive remark. I don’t agree with everything their saying. That’s not to say I am in favor of rapper and especially not Imus. Those Rutgers women are exceptional. I’d have no problem chewing anyone out who was degrading women of their caliber. However, women who allow people to swipe credit cards down their backsides, will not receive the same type of respect from me because they don’t have any for themselves.

And once again, why is asking for Spelman women for their leadership in the communities around here being perceived as a bad thing? I work with a youth committee in one neighborhoods surrounding the HBCU’S and I’m a college student! I feel a responsibility to young girls around here to teach what they are obviously not being taught at home. We all have to be accountable, not just rappers!

_____________________________________________________
Where’s the cop out now? Hip-hop has a negative and a positive side to it! The negative side needs to be cleansed! Without ground rules, white folks will continue playing dumb like they don’t know what to say and when to say it! So, take a little time to listen to everyone from your sisters at Spelman who want to be involved, to your sisters at Rutgers who became involved without a choice!
_______________________________________________

I feel like it’s cop out to require Hip Hop to care if we don’t and we feel justified in that because we are college students. Why don’t we uplift all the women who could be affected by Hip-Hop or society?

Bill,

Ahhh Lawd….not Keshia Cole bearing all her goodies, too!!! I missed that one! lol!

Janet, Halle and Stacey Dash nem will put it out there for the right price! And, that’s what hip-hop is all about! Getting paid!

The hip hop culture is not just the rap and video, its about having the audaucity to do what you must to get what you want! And, if anyone don’t like it, you get mean and vicious like Russell did with Oprah and Oprah did with the teacher and Kevin did with the ashy lipped brother! Oprah’s a master of the hip hop game!

A magazine trick is classy and easier to turn than a video trick! The negative side of the hip-hop culture can be found in rap, videos, magazines, reality shows (Rev Run), cribs, pimp my ride, 106, concerts/studios, pot, crack, text-messaging, strip clubs, speech, dress…etc!

The negative side of hip-hop thrives on breaking rules and getting paid for anything that goes beyond decency! There is a positive side too, but the definition of hip-hop is as diverse as the people who live by it!

@ Bill,.. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL i noticed that. i was wondering why you would take this man on a date.

he did state he was a man..lol thats funny

on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 @ 2:02 pm

210. Ne’ said:
——————————————————————————–

trinib where did you get that picture? daaaaaaaaymmmmn?

Bill Said:

Trinb, I always assumed that your avatar (see post#208)was a picture (avatar) of two MEN, based on the HANDS of the “person” that is sitting down, and the way the the man standing is holding/positioning his body….

Am I correct ?

I think a lot of post I have read I could agree with.

I found out that the panel of black men were not sincere and made a lot of excuses. All they had to say was “we are a part of the problem”. What is so hard about not disrespecting me and other black women? ….to stop the name calling such as hoes or bitch or the booty shaking! Is that all of what Hip Hop is? The women from Spellman repeatedly said how all rap was not bad.

I find Russell to be rude and defensive as well as his little brother the clown. Then the other guy made me when he told the girls the next time they in New York he would meet with them. I am glad Oprah called him out on that. I knew then he was not serious.

I beleive us as women do have to take a stand and say no. I beleive parents has a duty to teach there kids right from wrong. But why should we okay these so called “poest” to try to erase the values parents are instilling????

HOW can we expect the Russell’s to admit a problem when they are making MILLIONS off of it?????!!!!!!!

The show was a lot of talking but nothing much was said. I love Russell to death, but he avoided the issue at hand. No one is saying that “poets” can’t say what they wish. However, when they feel the need to address everyday black women as “bitches”, something is wrong and the hate is evident. I don’t believe censorship is the answer, but pressure needs to be put on these artists. For example Busta Rhymes’ “I Love My Bitch” was “I Love My Chick” on the radio and TV. Why not just say “I Love My Chick” all the time? And who the hell are these woman who allow their men to refer to them as bitches. My wife would never allow that kind of sh*t nor would I ever refer to my goddess as such. The artists just need to man up and stop doing the dumb sh*t just beceause everyone else is doing the dumb sh*t.

Music and Hip Hop should not be blamed for school shoots and rapes.

That is a whole other issue and discussion.

You can not blame someone listen to Too Short or Crime Mobb or Eminem or Ludacris on going out and raping someone, shooting someone or committing a crime. That has to do with personal issues and personal mentality as well as mental health issues and other problems.

Please lets not start blaming hip hop and the hip hop culture for all the ills of society and what’s wrong with the world.

on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 @ 2:23 pm

222. My Wordz said:
——————————————————————————–

@ Bill,.. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL i noticed that. i was wondering why you would take this man on a date.

he did state he was a man..lol thats funny

Bill Said:
I didn’t read the ENTIRE post..
*I missed the part where he said he was a man…
I swear !!!!!

I think I’m going to log off of concrete loop for a few days until this dies down….

Popular companies RARELY uses a white celebrity who gives the white race a bad name to endorse one of their products….50 cent gets in a shoot out, the next day he gets a deal with pepsi or some shit. Why? why? why?….

The white race is representing us as shit and we are eating the shit up and saying it tastes GREAT! Wake up people, wake up!

on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 @ 2:22 pm

221. Meatloaf said:
——————————————————————————–

Bill,

Ahhh Lawd….not Keshia Cole bearing all her goodies, too!!! I missed that one! lol!

Bill Said:

Kecia Cole was on the cover of VIBE magazine in August or September…
* I remember my and the wife were in Pathmark, and it was hot.
I was staring at Kecia Cole’s Breast, and my wife slapped me in the back of the head, REAL HARD !!!!

I agree with Imus all the way on this one.

CANDY you missed my point & I was just giving an example…However, I do blame NEGATIVE hip hop and other violent images, movies, video games etc. for the downfall of our youth..But speaking about the black community, I’m petty sure a young black male will relate to 50 Cent rather than Leo Dicaprio’s character from The Departed.

and I’m not talking about the average serial rapist or murder, I’m talking about the average person who took the worng path in life b/c they had no one to guide them (including society) in the right direction.

@ 218. JUDAH

i agree

@229-AYANNA Damn right! Divide and conquer hasn’t failed YT yet! That’s right. WAKE UP!
I will say this, I don’t care how cool I am with a YT person(s), I don’t ever get comfortable with them. That’s the problem with blacks today. Always thinking Gary/Becky is your friend. Only time YT flocks around negroes is when there is money involved! cha ching!

212. Candy

Just because Luda and others do charitable things doesn’t excuse what they do!! Lord have mercy! If a drug dealer built park for our kids to play in would you excuse him for his wrong doing simply cause he gave back to the community? I know the example is a bit far fetched, but things like this do happen. I’m only using Luda cause you did btw…I ‘m not being Bill O’Reilly. And to be honest alot of the rappers are doing these things cause it’s a subrooted way of taking responsibility without changing their habits cause it’ll affect their bottom line…MONEY!

And as for your comment about how reading fictional novels somehow compares to this situation was hilarious. We both know most youth are not getting these ideas from books. Nice try though.

No Bill…it’s a man and woman…both models not video harlots….don’t know what suppose to be going on but I love his back and his butt…..so I clipped the pic…I guess women too could objectify men….I’m guilty (hangs my head in shame)…not taking off the pic though

FISRT THEY BANNED BOOKS BECAUSE OF GHE SOCALLED BAD IDEAS NOW THEY WANT TO BAN MUSIC> I”M SORRY THAT IS NOT RIGHT YOU CAN”T BAN EVERYTHING ESPECIALLY IF IT IS A FORM OF EXPRESSION.

THE TERM BITCH AND WHORE AND NAPPY WERE ALL INVENTED BEFORE TRAP WAS EVEN CREATED.

202. redvelvet1 said:
——————————————————————————–

@ Samech, I see you used a quote from Langston Hughes, now that is some real poetry!!!

————————————————-

Thanks! He’s one of my favorite poets, along with Mutabarruka (Dis Poem)

This topic is on point and a little bit late in being addressed.

Although there’s clearly a racial element involved in this discussion, I think an unacknowledged point is pure economics (plus education which tends to go hand in hand). As I watched the Spelman College students express their concerns I applauded them. However, I believe that if you gathered a random group of African American economically disadvantaged, uneducated women of the same age bracket this would not be perceived as a problem. They would see no reason why this discussion would be relevant and in fact would probaly tell you “they ain’t talkin’ bout me”.

The fact of the matter is (as I believe Chris Rock alluded to in one of his stand up shows), I’ve been to many a club where women willingly dance to music that is truly degrading them but seem to believe that the songs aren’t referring to them.

Hip Hop lost me a long time ago. As I believe was mentioned on Oprah, at one point there was a diversity in hip hop that represented both the “enlightened” (poets as Russell Simmons might say) and those who expressed their more gritty, urban lives.

Unfortunately this diversity is pretty much non-existent today. The political messages of Public Enemy are overshadowed by the modern day minstrels of Snoop Dog and his ilk. There’s no beauty in 94% of the lyrics and there’s nothing to be gained by anyone listening to it.

It’s unfortunate and sad, but the fact that we’re just waking up to the issue is even sadder.

Attack the root cause: education, poverty, homelessness, lack of family values and we may be able to turn this around.

You know, as I was skating last night at a Brooklyn roller rink, I couldn’t help but notice the beautiful ranges of colors among my black people. I guess I had a moment of clarity. You see, I don’t go out anymore because I, for some reason, am always tense around too much black people. I always feel like a fight is going to break out. But last night, seeing men and women, skate together, I was like, I love my people, and I’m glad to be a black woman. We are a beautiful people. I just wish we could look first and think about that before we tear each other down. Before you call your “sistah” a ho, bitch, hoodrat, before we say to our black men, “nigga please,” we could just appreciate each other and how far we’ve come. I don’t care about rap or these video chicks. As I stated previously, I feel for the ones that came before us, the ones that took that ass whoopin, bit their tongue, held their heads down low, so WE wouldn’t have to. Like I said, Martin and Malcolm are turning in their graves.

@ 235. trinib , yep your guilty with that image! go sit in the corner

on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 @ 2:42 pm

235. trinib said:
——————————————————————————–

No Bill…it’s a man and woman…both models not video harlots….don’t know what suppose to be going on but I love his back and his butt…..so I clipped the pic…I guess women too could objectify men….I’m guilty (hangs my head in shame)…not taking off the pic though

Bill Said:
I was just asking…
no comdemnation on my part..
You do YOU

trini…omg high 5 to you for that pic. His BACK IS AMAZING. I love a toned black mans back, it does something to my blood. lol

lol @ seabreeze being @ king skate.

Girl I’m gonna miss Empire Roller rink. YT is kicking us out again.

Thank U Concreteloop for posting this topic!!! !!!!!!! I sincerly hope it gets more conversation than Beyonce’s hair/skin/life etc.

This show was way over due but very welcomed and appreciated.

Russell Simmons—Please stop calling Snoop Doggie Dog and the like poets. He is not. He is a pimp and he is in it for the money, not the art. Get over it.

Kevin Liles—-You are offended? You are offended?
You are funny. Bo, this was not about YOU!!!!!
U made an ask of yourself on national T.V. …Go home.

kind.

@234 - You are missing the point.

Both the books and the music is part of the so-called “hip hop culture”. So how is it that the music is a problem because it’s demoralizes, dogs and degrades women but the books that do the same thing is glorified and on the best seller list.

The argument is flawed. You can’t just look at one aspect of the culture that people believe to be a problem. I.E. music and not look at the whole thing.

That’s my point.

As to the artist doing charitable works - hmm, here’s my take on it - Luda’s music has changed and come a long way since the beginning. Is he conscious and good and “nicey nice” in his raps? No. He’s real and reflecting on his experiences and background.

Again the point is that you can’t overlook the good and just focus on the bad and say well the good doesn’t matter. That’s being one-dimensional and only looking at one aspect or view of things. You have to widen the camera angle and do a wide shot not just a close up.

We did an experiment in one of my college classes and took a video camera and a regular camera. We took pictures and video of one scripted scene/area where the focus was on the negative and dirty/grimy part, the other picture/video was on the good, positive aspects and the third was on the whole scene. The comments and feedback from the focus group was amazing on just the preconceived notions, prejudices and views. It has to do with people’s perception and histories on how they react or view certain things. That’s just one minor example.

The problem is racism and prejudice and discrimination and it’s long history in the US. As well as how negative american’s and america’s view of sex is. Sex and sexuality is taught as being naughty and dirty.

This problem/situation isn’t going to be solved overnight and it didn’t start with hip hop.

Again some of the rappers have changed but people are focusing on the past and not the present necessarily and not seeing the full, big picture.

That’s my other point.

But as with anything - I respect the way you say your piece as well as your opinion but we’ll have to agree to disagree on this I guess.

I apologize for getting off the subject a tad also.

yes, some of the lyrics in songs are rude, ignorant, and vulgar. yes, women are portrayed in many hip hop videos as scantily clad, booty poppin, vixens. why are people so offended. i am a black woman and am not. i don’t get pissed off when i hear bitch, or ho in songs. why should i? the artists don’t know me so they can’t be referring to me. as for particular women they may be describing in some of those instances, all i can say is if the shoe fit…
it made me angry that those spelman students kept going on and on about what they as hip hop artist and pioneers were going to do. they are not 100% responsible. nobody holds a gun to any of those womens’ heads who choose to be video models. why should they not be held accountable for partaking in the so called “demeaning of women” nobody brought that up.
and as far as mr. imus goes, whatever. he’s a racist.
and i can’t believe with all of those older people on that panel that nobody bothered to point out that white people have been calling black women “Nappy Headed Wenches” since they brought us over here. Now that’s real talk.

I agree with Lisa I remember they use to ban books because of the material. Harry Potter is still banned in some communities. I don’t think it is right to ban someone form of expression no matter how much you don’t like it the first amendment gives us a right to have free speech. Sorry but everything is NOT sunshine daisies if that was the case we would live in a robotic and perfect world.

smh that’s a damn shame.
I’ve had a lot of fun with no worries skating there, when you said what you said all I could do is smile.

Also - I didn’t say that the youth was getting their ideas from books.

But if the music is a part of the problem so is the book because it affects the mentality and is inudated in society.

So how can one aspect of the culture be a problem but the other isn’t?

Just something to Think About…

How are rap lyrics any more to blame or more demaning than the nonsensical shows like Flavor of Love, I love NY, Real world, College Hill - even some of Nick Cannon’s stereotypical skits ….

And if you are going to have a panel on the subject, where was the “Baddest Bitch”, the “Queen Bitch”, “Head Bitches in Charges”, “bitbull [dog] in heels” and mami with the Ill Na Na

To suggest that women rappers and coochie girl video vixens bear no responsibility in this denigration is wrong.

Oprah and her guest on part 1 of the so called”Town hall meeting” were being so hypocritical! How can you sit and praise a actor who uses the words bitch and hoe in their movies but when a rapper uses the words its an asault on black women?? Its all entertainment and if you dont like it when the rappers do it, then dont turn around and support it with an oscar nomination when a actor(some even are white like her beloved John Travolta) use it! Now no one is even thinking about what the whole issue was in the first place……….. RACISM

in additon, from the previous days discussion, i was beyond appalled that the woman suggested that rappers lose their contracts. hip hop is an arena that gainfully employs so many people, most importantly us. how dare she even imply that someones well being be taken away from them? it makes me sad that the attention was somehow focused on hip hop, after don imus made those tasteless, ridiculous comments. it makes me even sadder that older black people who should know better jumped on the bandwagon to attack hip hop and really show the world how divided we are as a people.

thank you 248 - you said it perfectly.

And btw - I’m not advocating banning books. I’m just saying that you can’t point to one area as a problem while praising another. You have to look at everything, the whole thing not just what offends or upsets you, not just what you disagree with.

If you (general/universal you here) are going to say that hip hop is a problem or the cause of the problem and that the hip hop culture/mentality is to be blamed then it would behoove us as a people to make changes and address the whole thing not just the music.

One Black person should not have to represent an entire group of Black people, the Video girls do not represent me or many females I know. Whites don’t get offended by Britney and PAris acting a fool. WHy? BEcause they don’t represent EVERY White female. Black get offended because there are not a whole lot of POSITIVE representation of us in the media that’s why.BUT as I said before I should not try to be a positive Black woman for the sake of Black people, but I should try to be the BEST ME I can be.

MOvies Books, Poetry All have vulgarity in them and it would be ludicorus if we banned them all.

The Bluest Eye anbd The color purple were both banned because of the language and sexuality. My Grandmother called the Temptations and Marvin Gaye Devil’s music.

I don’t think that hip hop should be blame for people stupid’s actions. Hip-hop does not tell people to kill innocent people and call innocent basketball players hoes. And even if hip hop did invent the word “hoe”, Imus is a grown ass man and should not let “hip-hop” influence him to pick on innocent girls.

218. JUDAH said:
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As far as the things that black men say in rap music, what comes out of those brothers is reflective of what has been put in. No one on the planet earth is more maligned and castigated than the black man. Not the black woman, no one. So if these brothers are told from infancy to adulthood that “they ain’t shit, ain’t never gonna be shit”, “you’re stupid, you’re ugly”, “you’re too dark, you’re too light”, do you think that these brothers are going to make uplifting music? Then many of these brothers note the difference in how they get treated by black women after they make it big as opposed to before and it stands out as fake. Only a prostitute or “ho” will change her conduct towards you based on how much money a man has. Those brothers put 2 and 2 together. It doesn’t make it right but it is real.

………………………………………………

Judah I disagree with what you posted. I constantly hear people use the argument that if people are constantly told they ain’t shit, ugly and so forth
that this somehow legetimizes the anger in black men. I say this is a cop out.

As a black man who grew up in the ghetto I’ve been told those things by MY OWN PEOPLE, FAMILY INCLUDED. Are you trying to say that whites are constantly bombarding us with these images and or admitting that it is our own people’s jealousy and greed that is corrupting the core of our communities? Which is it cause everything you said I’ve honestly gotten from us rather than them.

^^^^very good point KMNILES

253. cocoacuban said:

in additon, from the previous days discussion, i was beyond appalled that the woman suggested that rappers lose their contracts. hip hop is an arena that gainfully employs so many people, most importantly us. how dare she even imply that someones well being be taken away from them? it makes me sad that the attention was somehow focused on hip hop, after don imus made those tasteless, ridiculous comments. it makes me even sadder that older black people who should know better jumped on the bandwagon to attack hip hop and really show the world how divided we are as a people.

______________________________________________

THANK YOU! LAWD HAVE MERCY! Pat yourself on the back, finally, somebody voices the same exact frustration I had with that “town hall meeting”! I just so sad at how biased they were!

ALl BLack People are different though, you can’t expect all Blacks to agree on the issue. There is diversity within the BLack community and YOU ALL should Know that NOT ALL BLACKS ARE THE SAME.

@191….”Greedy and attention seeking women are mostly responsible for how black women are depicted in this country and around the world”

Let’s play a game. (Lazy, Drug selling, uneducated, don’t wanna take care of their kids, Still living with their mama, always going to jail Black men)
are mostly responsible for how black Men are depicted in this country and around the world”

How does that feel? Snug on the other foot?
If a white man said this, Black Men would be up in arms and ready to fight. ANd rightly so. The few do not reflect the souls of the many.

Kind.

246. Candy

Thanks for the response. I was trying to make the point that most of our young people are not reading books, therefore books are not the bigger issue. I didn’t mean to say that they are excluded from the problem.

And you are correct that sex is depicted as naughty and dirty, but in today’s hip-hop music culture it’s ALWAYS depicted that way.

@ 253 & 259 - I agree.

How is destroying these men’s, women’s livelihoods, careers and jobs throughout hip hop not just the artist but the record execs, a&r people, publicists, etc….going to solve anything except create a bigger problem of homelessness, bankruptcy filings and unemployment rates going up.

That is not the solution to this. And truthfully, I don’t know what is.

Didn’t the Departed win best Picture and wasn’t KIll BIll really Popular? So I agree with everyone who said that they can’t just focus on one thing if they are going to do that they might as well make a stand against ART in general, Which is a shame because some of the best MOVIES BOOKS AND MUSIC have Vulgarity in it.

@256-ALISHA whites don’t have to feel offended because they were never made to feel so. Hell they are the ones in control of all of this. They are individuals while we have always been looked upon as a whole.I don’t get why some people (no disrespect to you) don’t get it. Let me use an example, do you ever notice, media wise, when the difference between a black man committing a crime and a white man commiting a crime? The black man’s face is plastered on the front of every paper, blown up on the tv screen to leave the imprint of his face in your mind and continue to place fear in others that ALL black men are criminals. SMH

Please people stop acting like YT looks at us as their equal! My goodness, you can’t be that naive.

Thanks KMNILES - I understand.

The teens I know do read but not the street fiction, or at least that’s not there only source of reading material.

They don’t devour books as I did when I was younger and still do. And yes I admit I do listen to rap/hip hop and have read some of the books. But the books that bother me I return and the CDs that bother me I either give away or don’t play.

220. Decysive, we have a hip-hip communication problem!
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Are you saying the Spelman women don’t do community services?

—————————————————–

Why do you call them those Spelman “chicks” and then refer to the Rutger “women”? I get your drift! lol!! It may be a habit, but you and Imus sure have a way with discriptors!

————————————————–
??????

“However, they are defending who allowed herself to be sexually objectified. The fact that the female was a willing participant in the act NULLIFIES their whole argument.”

Okay, I think I know what you mean here! So, do you just wash your hands of the whole matter when the female is a willing participant? What does a crackhead, a poor person and a dog all have in common?
They’ll all turn tricks for a bone! You don’t nullify the argument just because Da Brat pays a crackhead to strip and appear in one of her videos!

You still go after the rappers for exploiting young weak people and people hooked on drugs! Black people teach their children, but peer pressure and dollars signs are lithal when you’ve been conditioned all your life!

You seem to have personal insight and beef with the Spelman women for not doing anything but show up on Oprah! Either state your case or move on from from “neighborhoods surrounding the HBCU’S” stans, because most black colleges are in the hood! And, any other college would have welcomed Nelly with open arms!!!!

I applaud you for doing community service, but I’d rather see students with that piece of paper in their hand more than anything else at this time! Let them serve in their own way!

256-ALISHA whites don’t have to feel offended because they were never made to feel so. Hell they are the ones in control of all of this. They are individuals while we have always been looked upon as a whole.I don’t get why some people (no disrespect to you) don’t get it. Let me use an example, do you ever notice, media wise, when the difference between a black man committing a crime and a white man commiting a crime? The black man’s face is plastered on the front of every paper, blown up on the tv screen to leave the imprint of his face in your mind and continue to place fear in others that ALL black men are criminals. SMH

UMM NO OFFENSE TO YOU BUT I JUST SAID THE SAME THING IF YOU READ WHAT I SAID , I SIAD THERE ARE DIFFERENT MEDIA REPRESENTATION OF BLACKS A DISPROPORTIONATE> BUT WE SHOULD NOT BE LOOKED AT AS A WHOLE—THAT IS THE PROBLEM>

#218 Judah said:

If black people want to address how we’re perceived and how we perceive and treat each other than attack the source, not the product. Hip hop, like all music, is a form of expression. How the hell can you tell someone how they “should feel”. That’s ridiculous.

—————————————
I understand where you’re coming from and I agree. The problem is far bigger than rappers.

It’s not about blaming everything on HIPHOP, but it would be a LIE to say that HIPHOP is not part of the problem of the perpetration of stereotypes THAT ARE KILLING US! We could all talk about pornography, it is not shown on BET and MTV all day long. White women are not called bitches and hoes in every radio stations and at the mall, white men are not called pimps and thugs on radios, tv and in the clubs everywhere, everyday, all day.

This is entering subconsciously in EVERY OTHER COMMUNITY’s minds (not just whites anymore) that we are bitches and pimps, that we are hoes and male hoes and thugs, because the “brainwashing” is constant from morning to evening, we hear it and see it, even when we try to escape it it is right in front of us! Poverty is an excuse. BILL COSBY and CHRIS GARDNER (Puirsuit of happyness) were very poor but they DIDNT GET BY BY CALLING THEIR COMMUNITY NIGGAS PIMPS BITCHES AND HOES. Lauryn Hill didn’t sell 20 million copies of Miseducation by degrading black people. Instead of trying to find solutions, we spend our time trying to find excuses, pointing fingers at everyone but ourselves, and we’re surprise?

One black shouldn’t represent everyone, but it doesn’t work that way for minorities. For one Paris Hilton, you’ll have thousands of respectable images of white women. How many respectable black men and women do you see on BET and MTV? When people see and hear the same thing over and over they start believing it. That’s what the process of brainwashing is all about. We don’t own those medias. So we need to be SMARTER!

Speaking of owning, you wanna blame white Sony and Universal? Do you know how many millions Russell Simmons, 50 cent, Puff Daddy, Jay-Z, Kevin Liles and so on are SITTING ON as we type? Do you know that they could start their own black owned Universal putting money together? I said it before, they don’t change cause they don’t wanna change. We don’t act as a “community”, it’s every man for himself.

You wanna blame it on slavery? Okay. You wanna blame the man? Okay. “The Man” and “Slavery” didn’t stop Will Smith, Spike Lee, Alicia Keys and Oprah. So now my question is, how long are we going to keep singing this song? Black men have been depicted as dangerous beasts since slavery and sisters have been considered rapable hoes since slavery, but when are we going to decide it’s time to BREAK THE CYCLE?

And how can we break the cycle if WE BLACKS PERPETRATE THE VERY STEREOTYPES that are poisoning US?

@270-ALISHA—My bad.

#271…Umm I for one do not watch MTV or BET so I see a lot of positive role models of Blacks in the Community and the Media in general.

I do agree that BLack people are diverse and should be seen as individuals and not as a whole.

Books and many movies have vulgarity in it, The Godfather has the N word in it and lots of violence and is considered one of the greatest films of all time.

The Children’s book “Chronicles of Narnia” has the word “Darkies” in it and is considered a classic. (Funny they try and Ban Harry Potter because of so-called magic spells, but not Narnia which has a derogatory term in it?).Anyway I don’t believe in banning music , books or movies because they are a form of art and like JUdah said You can’t tell someone how they SHOULD feel.

I thought those 2 days were a waste of air time. Why?
Because I didn’t appreciate Snoop Dogg, Nelly, Ludacris, 50 Cent, or Eminem not being brought to the table. If you want to address this issue why not have the artists up there that you want to call out? These are grown men who can very well speak up and defend themselves, that is I know this was pure bullshit!

Like Russell pointed out, he hasn’t signed an act in 10 years. He sold Def Jam years ago. So I don’t even know why he was there. Kevin Liles just has a title. Ben Chavis just talks, and Common is a positive force that can only speak for himself. He never fell into that category, so why was he there.

As a college graduate, I understand this piece of paper don’t mean a damn thing to no one else but me. The only paper that matters in this country is green.

If Oprah was so appalled by hip hop, she could have been had this show. She’s a puppet to her producers and she gets on my nerves with her fake ass concern.

We can continue to be jaded by living out our dreams, etc. but shit happens and life goes on and you never know what you would do for a buck or to maintain or obtain a certain lifestyle.

@ 258

Where in my post did I specify who it is that is bringing the negative bombardment? Where did I say that whites are ones saying these things? The black community carries on the negativity that was placed in it from the time that we were brought into this captivity. How come it’s a cop out when it comes to black men but for no one else? If that’s the case, I don’t want to hear anyone complain about anything because remember, this is America. We all love each other. I don’t want to hear about racism of any kind, anti-semitism, homophobia, or “nappy headed hoeism” because everyone should ignore it, stop making excuses, and rise above it.

In any environment you will have superlative individuals that will rise above any situation they’re placed in. Just like you will have “privileged” people that become degenerates. What I’m talking about is the C student. The A student will almost always succeed and the F student will almost always fail. The C student can become an A or F student depending on the teacher, classroom, and curriculum. The C student far outnumbers anyone else so those are the ones that are the subject of discussion. You or I cannot compare what we were able to do with the average person because the Most High gives everyone a different level of insight.

Amongst black people are a group that I call “closet coons”. Those are negroes that put up a real good front that they give a damn about black people. They always have some grand “educational” or “voting” reform that’s going to save black people, lol. When asked to expound on their plan they get defensive because it involves fantasy and there’s no precedent for it’s success. They will then reflexively protect caucasians (even if whites were never brought up, lol) at all costs with knee jerk, mind control responses. “We have to look at ourselves”, “we can’t play the race card”, we can’t counter ‘hate’ with ‘hate’”, “Color don’t matter”, “what did Dr. King say brother?”, “God don’t hate”, etc., etc. Those are the same type of black people that the white man puts in prominent leadership positions because he knows that they can be bought and will mislead the average person, who is sheep regardless of color. One of the key attributes of the average closet coon is that they attack you for “seeming” to attack caucasians in any way, shape, or form even when one makes a banal statement.

YOU KNOW WHAT I CAN’T BELIEVE!?….

OPRAH HAD A SHOW ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHINING, CRYING WHITE WOMEN…..

HELL HAS OFFICIALLY FROZEN OVER!

Forget “Dumb” Imus…can we just have a summit on how Common came to be so fine?

@257 not 258

@274…^^^”Because I didn’t appreciate Snoop Dogg, Nelly, Ludacris, 50 Cent, or Eminem not being brought to the table”…(naw u know they scared!)

I feel you. But Oprah at least got it started. Everything would have been focused on the rappers when actually THEY ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES TO BLAME.

2 me the focus was to much on getting an apology.
Damn and apology, RESPECT ME!
We don’t need them to understand what they did was wrong. We know they are wrong. BECAUSE WE LET THEM DO IT.

But now we are grown, trying 2 raise kids and we are not having it. Or are we?

We need to stop expecting black men to heal us.
WE NEED TO STOP ON THE DANCE FLOOR, WE need to CALL MTV/BET and radio stations, Corporations, etc Until they LEARN how to express themselves without degrading US. I’m not trying to see them unemployed,
but they need to play nice or not at all.

They respect white women, why not us.

kind
(pl excuse any errors, I’M Pissed)

And another thing, Oprah is just exploiting this whole situation for ratings. when you are discussing issues you dont just bring people to the table that you deem acceptable like common, bring in the people that you are talking about like snoop dogg and nelly so they can defend themselves. Im sure she invited don imus but i can gaurantee you there was no invite sent out to snoop, nelly 50,etc…When rappers use these terms they are not putting all black wome in the class of bitches and hoes. If you listen to what they’re saying its talking about women that they have come into contact with that carry themselves as bitches and hoes, and sometimes they’re not even talking about women. They also refer to men as bitches and hoes. So when is Oprah going to have her town hall meeting on the movie industry and attack them for their degrading of women in films? Is there going to be a panel of movie production executives to be held accountable for hiring theses actors?? Will they ask them not to hire actors because they use bitches and hoes in their scripts??? Give me a break, the answer is NO because thats not what her white audience wants to see and doing that would take money out of her pocket. If you dont like hip hop then dont buy it, but dont blame it as the root of sexism or let a racist old white man use it as a scape goat to take attention off of himself.

meeyow I AGREE 10,000%
HE JUST LOOKS SOOOOO FREAKING GOOD. HE IS A BEAUTIFUL BLACK MAN.

220. Decysive, we have a hip-hip communication problem!
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Yup, I noticed, especially with you assuming what my personal feelings are.
____________________________________
Are you saying the Spelman women don’t do community services?

—————————————————–
No. And I don’t recall saying anything of the sort.

_____________________________________________
Why do you call them those Spelman “chicks” and then refer to the Rutger “women”? I get your drift! lol!! It may be a habit, but you and Imus sure have a way with discriptors!
________________________________________________

Wow, another unwarranted, disgusting comparison between me and Imus! I had no idea that street slang could be the same thing as calling someone a nappy headed hoe.
I apologize if you were offended.
————————————————–
Okay, I think I know what you mean here! So, do you just wash your hands of the whole matter when the female is a willing participant? What does a crackhead, a poor person and a dog all have in common?
They’ll all turn tricks for a bone! You don’t nullify the argument just because Da Brat pays a crackhead to strip and appear in one of her videos!
________________________________________
You think you know what I mean? If I didn’t type it, I obivously don’t mean that. I think you get what you want me to mean. I can’t go to bat for anyone who lets someone slide a credit card down her backside and doesn’t see a problem with that. I can try to get her to understand that she had been exploited and see why it’s wrong. I can say that I won’t support the rapper anymore, but there’s not much I can do for her until she comes that realization for herself. I can got to bat for women who were called nappy headed ho’s because some white guy didn’t like the fact that they were covered in tattoos.
_________________________________________________

You still go after the rappers for exploiting young weak people and people hooked on drugs! Black people teach their children, but peer pressure and dollars signs are lithal when you’ve been conditioned all your life!
____________________________________________________

If we got rid of rap altogether, DRUGS WOULD STILL EXIST. You can watch a movie or television to witness drug use. Which is why I say that rap is not solely responsible for the ills of society. “Peer Pressure” will always exist. People have the right to choose between what detrimental to their growth and what’s beneficial to it. We should punish rappers for glorifying such a sinful lifestyle but how to propose we go about doing that?

_________________________________________

You seem to have personal insight and beef with the Spelman women for not doing anything but show up on Oprah!
______________________________________________

What? Having a difference in opinion is a personal beef? I have respect for people who don’t share the same opinion as me. I feel like the problem goes deeper than Hip Hop and we all could participate in the solution.
The fact still remains that I see nothing wrong with asking sisters at Spelman to be as equally intrested in mentoring youth in surrounding communities as much as they are intrested in their initative against violence and sexism in rap.

Why do you assume that I have a beef with them? All Black people don’t share the same brain so we are bound to think differently.
_____________________________________________

Either state your case or move on from from “neighborhoods surrounding the HBCU’S” stans, because most black colleges are in the hood! And, any other college would have welcomed Nelly with open arms!!!!
___________________________________________________

Why would I move on from educating my people? I would be no different from those who acknowledge the problem but refuse to participate in the solution, which achieves nothing. And what’s the point in continually bringing up Nelly?

___________________________________________

I applaud you for doing community service, but I’d rather see students with that piece of paper in their hand more than anything else at this time! Let them serve in their own way!
__________________________________________________

Your opinion and I respect it.

HELENA,I don’t believe in banning anything either, I just think blacks need to be aware that until they change their ways (not feeding into the stereotypes) things are only gonna get worse. I don’t expect black folk to be perfect, but when you have the option not to sign a contract that portrays you as a clown, use that power, there are other ways of making it. Quincy Jones’ mom used to fry rats in winter to feed her kids, he made it with dignity. Only the gangsta part of hiphop is mainstream and no matter how much we love to embrace our individuality we’re still part of the black community and this affects us all as blacks, not just “the bitches and pimps they’re talking about”. That’s just my POV.

Word #280! I totally feel you and truth be told, I think this is more about balance than anything else. I’ve turned off the radio YEARS ago and I barely watch BET/MTV. As their music is so one-sided (cornball beats/catchy lyrics vs. substance). I’m more inclined to use word of mouth from friends or the internet to find new music. Lastly, these record labels are only pushing this kind of music, because that’s what the public is desiring. Without the demand, there can be no supply. Pure and simple. Quite frankly, If I want to listen to misogynistic music then again, that’s my prerogative, but I’m not going to be naive and say that music is the source of society’s ills.

#218 Judah said:

If black people want to address how we’re perceived and how we perceive and treat each other than attack the source, not the product. Hip hop, like all music, is a form of expression. How the hell can you tell someone how they “should feel”. That’s ridiculous.
————-

Thats like taking a gun to my head and forcing to believe something.I totally agree with you.

I can understand Russell Simmons calling them poets, what would you call them,nobodies?They expressing their feelings.There is nothing wrong with that.Its bad enough that many rappers grew up in tough neighborhoods and get bashed.And we sitting here today bashing them.They gonna keep doing what they do.Thats what people do all the time,when someone says you can’t do it, they gonna do it.

Black women need to stop being money hungry! Stop fucking for cash. get a damn job! Its too many hoes running around.

Richard Jones, I couldn’t agree with you more.

OPRAH DOESN’T GIVE A SHIT. SHE IS JUST DOING THIS FOR RATINGS.
IF SHE REALLY CARED ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE, SHE WOULD HAVE TAKEN SOME OF THAT 40 MILLION THAT SHE THREW AWAY IN AFRICA AND DONE SOMETHING FOR HER OWN PEOPLE OVER HERE.

AS FOR AS I AM CONCERNED OPRAH CAN’T TELL ME A DAMN THING ABOUT BLACK ISSUES, SHE STOPPED BEING BLACK 10 YEARS AGO AND

NEXT WEEK SHE WILL BE BACK TO WHINING, CRYING, SNIFLING WHITE WOMEN SHOWS AGAIN.

Forget “Dumb” Imus…can we have a summit on how Common came to be so fine?

we as black people need to stop using slavery as an excuse for everything….It’s done we are free now it’s time to for us to take responsibility for ourselves….otherwise we will continue to live in and breed ignorance…..BLACK PEOPLE WAKE UP AND STOP BLAMING EVERYBODY ELSE FOR YOUR FUCK UPS……STOP FOCUSING ON MONEY, CARS AND CLOTHES AND START TO FOCUS ON FAMILY, EDUCATION AND THE CREATION AND PRESERVATION OF WEALTH…BECAUSE LIKE THEY SAY IF YOU KNOW BETTER YOU WILL DO BETTER…..

Wow I must say that I spent more time reading within this forum today than I have any other forum on Concreteloop. Its a great issue to discuss and its been rather inetersting to read all of the replys to this topic . I would list all of the replys I enjoyed most reading but there are too many so Ill say this. Its good to know that we can come together and express/share views on something very relevant to our people as a whole. I enjoy discussing whats going on in enetrtainment but every so often you need that dose of real important current events.

I missed Part 1 of the Oprah Town meeting but I had an opportunity to see partb 2 yesterday after work.
I notice that a few folks within this forum took issue with Oprah airing the black community’s “dirty laundry” !
NEWSFLASH: The black communities business as it pertains to hiphop music is no longer “OUR BUSINESS” simply because it has become so huge and profitabvle that it has taken on a life of its own. Black folks are no longer the only fans on hiphop. People from many race,ethnic backgrounds, socio economic groups, etc make up a diverse array of listeners . They all hear and are in some way effected by the lyrical content. When you make songs for the world to hear than your message is on full display!

Secondly Russel Simmons and Kevin Liles Def jam exec’s p*ssy footed around the issue, like most rappers when confronted about their lyrical content and the responsibility that they as artist have . They were babbling on and on , mouth flappign and moving but saying nothing to really address the role that they themselves play . However I cant say that Im shocked because Russel and Kevin arent going to speak out against something taht they themselves have profited greatly from,lol! Speaking out too strongly would make them look like hypocrites to the hip hop community and very artist that they represent. They have made millions and then some off the very art form .music (however you personally view it) and counting.
I thought that Russell had a lot of nerve talking about”the hiphop community” has done more for race relations than any civil rights leader!Was that mofo smoking dat shyt,lol before he arrived at the show?
Just because buying,rapping along to rap music, rocking urban gear, and trying to lean with it rock with it, doesnt mean that rappers have done more than Malcom X , Martin Luther King and any other great leader! he better get a history book !

AND what the hell was Kevin Liles getting so beady eyed and souped up about , when the guy in the audience wasnt even directing the comment at HIM ,when he said clowns, but at the rappers who act like clowns for real. I guess that it was his way oagain diverting the attention away from fact that he wasnt really addressign shyt with his tired answers.

I think that Common is a great rapper and also a good example of how you can express yourself without disrepecting black women,etc ,but Im confused as to why he was the only rapper in attendance!
Oprah should have had some of the rappers who lyrics sheclaims to detest so that we could hear what they have to say about this issue. It would have been more interesting and well rounded discussion wise.

Ps I love all that Oprah has accomplished and I think that she is an awesome example of someone who has worked hard , to overcome personal and professional obstacles to acheive excellence within and even outside her profession. Whether you likeor dislike er ya have to give the woman some credit! Shes done more for people (all, including black community) than most of her biggest critics. I did not however agree with the way that she cut teh school teacher off.I think that the teacher raised valid points also and should have been allowed to finish her thought without being rudely told” I GET IT I GET IT”! That wasnt cool Oprah!
The young ladies from Spelman expressed themselves with poise, intelligence and class. They were a good example of how you can step outside the “anythinggoes’ box and have the integrity to stand for something , as opposed to fallign for anything.
I was alil surprised that Ben Chavis didnt have more to say aboutthe issue,and that he seemed to be mostly on Russel and Kevin Liles side than anything but I guess that some politicians are trying to work with the hip hop commuinity given its popularity.
In closing I will say this:) It really has to take an effort on the parts of everyone involved to change this problem.Im not really for censorship but artist have to have a greater amount of responsibility for what they put out, as do gthe record label execs and the women who allow themselves to be exploited and disrespected, as well as the parents who must assume responsibility for what they allow their children to hear and see in their homes, as well as the consumer who hands over their money in a show of support for this type of musie. In doing so you will challenge the rappers to think outside the box and come up with more creative,less degrading ways of expressing themselves or .

lol@ How Imus turn the tables on black people..lol Crackers are good at doing that eh? I see them working thier action right here on this very thread ..just funny lol

I saw both parts. I love Al Sharpton, the guy is so dead on. The women on the panel were great except for Oprahs therapist. Russell Simmons appeared to be taking up for the language and objectification of women by these male rappers.

Russell has matured some, but Russell also used to refer to women as bitches and ho’s himself. He was even on tape “The Show”….same one with jay-z punching a woman in the head after battle rapping with DMX.

286. just a thought said:
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Black women need to stop being money hungry! Stop fucking for cash. get a damn job! Its too many hoes running around.
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hmmm….brothers need to stop paying cash for a fuck, and keep a job !

I agree too many whores, male and female.

wow the number has almost reached 300.. thanks Angel great post!

First of all, this is not a “all or nothing” issue! Some of you have a utopian stans of what you think the hip-hop culture and even what you think the black community should represent! It will never reflect your ideal! Hopefully, you won’t waste too much of your life being frustrated, before you realize that it is only history repeating itself!

The lure of sex and violence is the common bond that hip-hopsters and poor communities share! If you’re not after sex or the hype of violence, the hood is a pretty boring place! That’s just the way it is!

Poor people and low-lifed people steal, rob and beg! Some are poor because their black face and nappy hair prevented them from getting what they felt they deserved! No excuses for them, but they gave up!!! Sometimes, it was discrimination and other times, it was just a lack of motivation, which can also be the by-product of discrimination! But, no excuses!

As soon as someone comes along and offer them dollars to do anything, anything, I mean anything…they’ll jump! They don’t care who gets hurt or how much shame is involved!

We get embarrased when they shake their butts on the rap videos, but we’ll sit and watch three gay black men go on Jerry Springer and act a fool! Cross dressing and the whole nine yards! Its not the perpetration of stereotypes thats killing us! Its AIDs and gang violence that killing us!

White women, asians and mexicans dance in videhoes too! But, the stereotype is with blacks, because anything we do…we become or we walk away! Trust me, if the black rappers weren’t so good at it, there are plenty of whites who would love to take Snoop and Lil Mo’s place!

What TV station or clubs calls black men pimps and thugs all day. I’ve never seen that stans! Bill Cosby played the role of pimp and thug all through out his career! By the end of his career, he became a full-fledged pervert! Bill and Chris weren’t any poorer than anyone else! And, Lauryn Hill did some pretty degrading stuff with the Marley boys!

Are entertainers the only people who overcame in your world? Spike Lee, Oprah and Will! Why is it all about celebrities? I didn’t hear anyone singing that sad song until Imus came out and took it to the bridge! The only pimp and ho images I see are right here on CL!

I make no excuse for anyone, but I’ve seen the lasting effects of poverty and enslavement! It’s just the nature of the beast, if we were the majority race, the negative images would be on the whites! Every race comes to America with the same negative images of blacks! That stereotype was planted by the white media long before the rappers got their millions! Now, we want them to pay to fix it! They can’t!

And, the way to break any negative cycle is this:

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

I can’t believe the producers of the show did not step in and try to put a stop to this before it escaladed to the point of no control! The moment arguing started to get out of hand someone from production should’ve come and put a stop to this!

At least on the Real World the production staff cares enough about the kid’s well-being to keep this type thing from happening. BET, on the other hand, was trying to catch every moment of it on tape! The moment ratings become more important than the safety of the participants on the show, you have a serious problem on your hands!

^^^ oops wrong post, lol… my bad!!!

the whole they’re were talking just like the girls at spell man said they were talkin aroind the issue and not tryin to get to the point…..I think the reason they didnt answer in what I think was a truthful manner was b/c they know that theire livelihood depends on the smut we call mainstrean hip hop….I listen to common a lot and he has a lot of positive messages in his music but the bad out wigh the good and just as parents have a responsibility to their kids to teach them right and wrong rappers and leaders in the hip hop community need to stop signing artist
but I’m not gonna front I do listen to rap music but at times its hard to listen cuz I get tired of hearin the bitches and hoes and all the other things said to degrade women

ALL THE DISCUSSION IN THE WORLD IS NOT GOING TO GET RID OF THE WHITE BIG WIGS WHO HAVE THE POWER TO PLACE THE RECORDS ON THE RADIO AND IN THE PUBLIC.

WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR OWN STUFF, THATS WHEN WE CAN ENSURE THE COONERY WILL CEASE.

RUSSELL HAS THE POWER..AND A HANDFUL OF OTHERS..LETS SEE WHAT MUSIC COMES OUT HIS CAMP IN THE FUTURE

Some of you need to know how to get to the damn point instead of babbling on and on because I can’t comprehend a lot of the damn comments on here! Anyways, I’ve been saying this shit for years, rappers are nothing but shit! The most popular one’s doing it right now are 50 and Luda. I can’t stand any of them, and dudes have the nerve to say “They got hot lyrics.” What hot lyrics? They are commercial, have women who don’t respect themselves shaking their ass, cigars or disguised weed, alcohol, in their videos. They say things like “There’s some ho’s in this house if you see them point em out” And didn’t Game said that’s why he doesn’t “Fuck with industry bitches” he’ll just keep a low key bitch or something like that?

I didn’t watch the above videos yet, but from what I heard, Ruselle and the other guy need their asses whooped from some of us strongly opinionated CL people. How are they going to support this trashy dumbass music? I’m still a junior in high school, and I can say that I get real pissed when there are white wiggers and posers saying “Was sup dog” or “Gurl how u doin” or “Yo get outta my face” or even say the N word in a stereotypical black way, trying to make fun when their ass aint funny! I always found it strange that white gurls started wearing weave instead of hair extensions, say ghetto, singers like Fergie and Justin Timberlake use the word “brotha” and they start to act and dress what they think is black. Back in 2000 we still had our things exclusive for the black community but these dumbass rappers have exploded the pop music world. Commercials are even using hip-hop music. It’s crazy.

WE NO LONGER HAVE A CULTURE OF OUR OWN. Puerto Ricans and other Hispanics still have their culture and what do we have…A BAD IMAGE!

I know I refer to celebrity females who I don’t like as bitches, ho’s, skanks, whore’s and what not, but I think they portray that. Like, rappers call chicks in videos who shake their asses video ho’s or just plain ho’s and bitches. Okay fine, that’s what they are but then to sleep with them and support them in videos? How dumb is that? To be a rapper who’s married and respects his wife and to say to be quoted in a magazine “Nah I got a wife I don’t fuck with them ho’s” Is a big difference than shake ya ass bitch!

Those Spelman girls thought they sounded so intelligent. They have been sniffing their own asses too much with their fucking heads in the clouds. Oprah didnt give a shit about what they had to say, so poor Gayle had to keep flailing her arms to get them included in the show.

Well here comes my two cents….
First of all, I have a 10 yr old and a 12 yr old..of whom I have always taught”do not fuel ppls negative comments” The fact of the matter people is that although there is no way we could hide the fact that we were stunned by Imus’s comments, at the sametime, the man has become more popluar because EVERYONE keeps talking about it! For the love of all that is good, at some point in time we have got to learn that that is what he wants! REACTION!!!! I am in no way saying that we cannot discuss it, but basically, it is what it is. This is not the first time and it will not be the last time. We have got to move on..

The other point I wanted to make was, and at the time I can’t remember who posted it, but just because you try to keep your kids from stuff does not mean they will not get to that very thing. Instead of sheltering our children from everything, we should educate them on what is really happening in this world today. Knowledge is Power not matter what. To steal a quote from Finding Nemo”if we never let anything happen to our children, then NOTHING will happen for our children”. Protect your children, do not paralyze them.

very well put wifey.

290. DivaKai, you covered all the bases! I would add that Kevin was guilty by association! Everyone knew what team they were on! Team Rapper or Team Gayle!

There may never be a single team! What’s important is that the playing field is leveled so that everyone can coexist in the game!

-The Imus’s need to know that there are grave consequences!

-Entertainers, especially rappers and producers need to know that negative stereotype and degradation is totally unacceptable!

-The girls who appear in magazines, videos, and movies need to start acting like ladies and not like desperate sellouts!

-The networks need to know that we don’t want negative black images on public TV!

-The talk show host needs to know that her responsibility is greater than just the white women who put her in office!

-The sponsorers need to know that we are viable consumers with quality expectations!

-The world needs to know that black students are attending Rutgers, Virginia Tech and Spelman to better themselves!

-The media needs to know that negative black stereotypes should only have to be bleeped once, and after that, censored!

-The media also needs to know that violations of race relations should be corrected with positive air time and termination like Imus!

But wait, none of this will solve the problem! These are only steps in the other direction! We can do more by taking personal responsibility for ourselves! The healing that we need can only come from God! Pray on the matter and pray for all people!

Brothers and Sisters call each other names. Sometimes they get angry and sometimes they accept it and may bite back. But if someone outside of the family uses the same name against that brother or sister, it’s a different story. That’s just the way things are.

Although I do commend Oprah for having this panel I did not agree with everything that all the males on stage had to say. What I really would have liked to have seen was more females on stage, like Trina, Eve, or Lil Kim or Queen Laitfah.

FIRST OF ALL, It is the responsibility of the parents of the young children to MONITOR and BE AWARE of the type of the music their son/daughter listens to.

I don’t think any young person under the age of 18 should even be LISTENING to Hip Hop because there are a lot of sociological and physchological issues in the music that I don’t feel that these young people can fully grasp.

I am conflicted on this issue because I do think it is degrading and wrong BUT I am a 26 year old hip hop fan, and I don’t feel that the lyrics themselves is actually a reflection of ME or any black woman I know such as my mother, my aunts, cousins, sisters, or friends. That being said I don’t feel that this is a complete HIP HOP issue, although it has been going on for many years, trying to censor 50, Snoop, Jeezy, etc.
IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE MATTER!!!!!

Furthermore, the people that Oprah really should have had on were the major players Diddy, Jay-z, T.I., Jeezy, Lil Wayne, The Game, the entire G-UNIT, Eminem, Busta Rhymes, Snoop, and Ludacris. These are the popular artists in hip hop right NOW and they more than anyone could really get their point across as to why they use these words and images in their music. I love Common, been a fan since 94, but honestly, he belongs in his own league, (along with Mos Def,Lupe Fiasco and Talib Kweli) and should not be lumped in with the rest of these artists although I know he felt he had to represent.

We have so much farther to go with this issue and there are MANY MANY MANY factors that play into it, and it’s not just hip hop, but white america likes to use it as a scapegoat.

BY THE WAY: I AM A PROUD BLACK WOMAN THAT HAS NEVER BEEN REFERRED TO AS A HO BY MY FATHER, MOTHER, BROTHERS, MY EXES, OR ANY RANDOM DUDE ON THE STREET.

296. txsupercutie, WTH??? See, this is why we suffering as a people! This gurl done got back on that pipe and she just posting random ish all over the place! lol!

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301. SMDH said: “…Those Spelman girls thought they sounded so intelligent. They have been sniffing their own asses too much with their fucking heads in the clouds. Oprah didnt give a shit about what they had to say, so poor Gayle had to keep flailing her arms to get them included in the show.”

LMAO ~ You just wrong for that! lol!

“snidding their own asses”
“flailing her arms”

I have a special request: Let’s everyone make a concerted effort and attend church this Sunday! Pray for the Virginia Tech incident and pray for all people! I know some of you already attend every Sunday, but I’m appealing for those who have stopped going for what ever reason! Let’s get back to the source!

God Bless you!

303..Thanks, I try.

@ 307 the cover charge is too high!

Just playing 307 lol Lets pledge to change or work on changing messed up behaviors we have . Lots of people on here can work on not being so jugdgmental all the time, and stop trash talking Beyonce !! lol .Ya’ll know she the shit !

Im proud of us today on this post though, there were a few disgreements but they were done tasteful ..GOOD LOOK !!!!

Double Standard, Black men in the US call women nappy headed hos all the time but when Imus does it, its a problem. Maybe we should all just stop calling each other names.

309. Tia said: “@ 307 the cover charge is too high!”

Tia, you should only contribute if you are a member!

Visitors should not participate in offerings during their first visit!

Just go and hear a good message!

RUSSELL SIMMONS DOESN’T REALLY GIVE A DAMN ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE!! THIS IS THE SAME LOSER THAT WAS HANGING OUT WITH PARIS HILTON.HE’S BEEN MAKING DOLLARS FOR SO LONG HE CAN’T EVEN RELATE TO WHAT’S GOING ON IN THE HOOD.RUSS NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU MAKE YOU’RE STILL GONNA BE A BLACK MAN.THE ONLY RESPECT RUSSELL WANTS IS FROM THE WHITE MAN.I’M SO SICK OF HEARING HOW IT’S THE PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY TO RAISE THEIR KIDS,BECAUSE HOWEVER TRUE THAT MAY BE,A LOT OF THESE PARENTS AREN’T GOOD ROLL MODELS.A LOT OF THESE KIDS ARE OUT HERE WANTING SOMEBODY TO LOOK UP TO. I WATCHED OPRAH WITH MY 13YR OLD SON AND HE COULD SEE THROUGH THE BULL!!MY SON HAS FRIENDS FROM THE HOOD AND FROM THE BURBS BLACK,WHITE,ASIAN AND THEY ALL LISTEN TO RAP.AND IT’S CRAZY THE INFLUENCE RAP HAS ON ALL THESE KIDS.HIS ASIAN FRIEND CALLS HIMSELF A CHIGGA AND RAPS AND TRIES TO TALK TOUGH.ONE OF HIS JEWISH FRIENDS TALKS ABOUT BEING GANSTER.MY SON LAUGHS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT EVEN LIKE THAT. IT’S WHAT’S SUPPOSE TO BE COOL I GUESS.AND WHO DO YOU THINK IS INFLUENCING OUR DAUGHTERS WITH EVERYTHING ABOUT SEX …BEYONCE THAT’S WHO!!IS AIDS IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY CAUSE WE SURE DON’T ACT LIKE IT!!AND SNOOP WHEN YOU’RE MAKING SO MUCH MONEY IT’S HARD TO SEE YOUR PUPPET STRINGS!!!

309. Tia, some messed up behaviors can’t be changed without God’s help! And, if you do attend, you might learn how God expects us to use righteous judgement, like that stans you just made for Beyonce’! That was some good judgement you used, except she be singing Des’ree’s joints without expressed permission!

Who ever told Russell Simmons that he is a spokesperson? He sounded like a complete FOOL! A lot of words, but saying nothing. The man is nearly 50 years old taking a defenseless stance. He is only trying to protect his money, and don’t care two sense about the people that he hurts.

When are we going to realize, Russell Simmons don’t have shit to so with music. Nobody on that panel had shit to so with bitches and hoes. Def Jam had a diversity of artists under Russell and Rick Rubin.

@292 Jay-Z was in Backstage, not “The Show”. Russell explained his use of the word bitch and that was filmed 13 years ago. At least Russell married the bitch he was talking about.

Let’s not act like bitches and hoes, or sluts, tramps, and skank whores don’t exist. Its when you call a respectable woman out of her name that there is wrong.

In “Backstage” there were groupies having sex with roadies trying to get to the artists. And in “The Show” there were the nappy headed hoes outside trying to sleep with Warren G. So please let’s not act like we don’t have females out here proudly degrading themselves.

They missed the most important issue…. only the lawyer address the issue that without the consumer this wouldn’t be possible.

So everyone who watches these videos, buys the music and tunes into the radio stations is RESPONSIBLE!

Without an audience, there is no income and as American is all about capitalism this shitwould end!

Unfortunately white people buy the music and te only option for the “brothers/sisters” is to create alternatives that we can listen to/watch that makes us feel “good” about ourselves! I dont feel good about myself and my community when I see artist disrespect theselves and other human beings

I FEEL THAT THE WORD HOES AND BEE’S ARE REFER TO WOMEN WHO USE THERE SELVES AS AN OBJECT. I AM AN EDUCATED AFRICAN AMERICAN SISTER WHO GRADUATED FROM A HBCU COLLEGE NOT SPELLMAN AND TO SEE THOSE LADIES WHO WAS ON THE SHOW WAS NOT REPRESENTING ME OR ANYBODY WHO LISTEN TO HIP HOP. THEY REPRESNTED THOSE WHO DOES NOT UNDERSTAND HIP HOP, WHO DOES NOT LISTEN TO HIP HOP, WHO DOES NOT FEEL HIP HOP, I FEEL THAT OPRAH AND OTHERS, WHO DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE HIP HOP NATION, ARE TRYING TO RUIN HIP HOP BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES DOES NOT KNOW THE ART AND THE EXPRESSION OF HOW HIP HOP. 10 TO 12 YEARS AGO CONGESS MEN AND WOMEN WAS TRYING TO DESTROY HIP HOP, LIKE SUCH ARTIST TUPAC SHUKAR. ALSO OPRAH AND HER LITTLE FAN CLUB THEY FORGET THAT THERE WAS A TIME WHEN THEY ALL LISTEN TO MUSIC THAT WAS TALKING ABOUT PIMPIN, SO THEREFORE THERE COMES A TIME IN EVERY GENERATION THAT WE (ALL WHO LOVE HIP HOP) WILL GO THREW THE SAME WITH OUR CHILDREN AND OUR CHILDRENS CHILDREN AND SO ON

QUESTION

WHY DO MILLIONS ACROSS THE GLOBE LIKE TO LISTEN TO “POETS” TALK ABOUT DISRESPECTING WOMEN, SHOOTING UP PEOPLE AND BUYING RIMS!!!

Oprah is always blaming the rappers why doesnt she ever blame the video vixens who agree to shake their asses in front of the camera.. no one is putting a gun to these girls heads saying ” you better be in my video and let me call u a hoe or else” they choose too.. If you dont like rap music more power to ya but dont go blaiming the hip hop industry because of something that don imus said that still doesnt make it right!

We’re all to blame as a society. This kind of talk did not orignate in the black community either. That goes way back to when our people were being ripped from the shores of Africa by Europeans. We buy the music, we dance to it at the clubs, we watch the videos and attend these concerts. We all need to start taking responsilbity. Records execs HAVE TO SAY NO, music channels HAVE TO SAY NO. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY CONSUMERS NEED TO SAY HELL NO!!!!! As a community we need to do better. I’m glad our dirty laundry is being aired. Maybe we can examine where we are going wrong. I am 25 and I can’t stand they way some of us in the African American community behave. As Spike Lee penned it in School Days…”WAKE UP”!!!!!

I think this discussion is going just like it did on the Oprah Show where topics go all over the place. We waste time attacking each other.

Here is the deal BLACK WOMEN. We don’t like being disrespected. Do something about it. ANYTHING. And be vocal about it. We need to demand our respect just like other minority women.

Otherwise me might as well bend over and take it and shut up about it.

Kind.

KEVIN LYLES TELL EVERYONE HOW IT FEELS TO BE A PIMP? CAUSE THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE!!! LET YOUR SON GO AND PLAY WITH TIMMY AND KEEP HIM AWAY FROM THE HOODBOYS CAUSE THEY ARE BENEATH HIM!!!BEN CHAVIS KEEP SWINGIN WITH RUSS YOU TWO DESERVE EACH OTHER!!!

I found it truly ironic that during the commercial break one of Oprah’s SPONSORS was a Candie’s ad featuring Fergie!! How hypocritical can you get??? Oprah’s raging against hiphop, yet she’s being paid by a company whose spokesperson is a so-called hiphop vixen whose songs are all about using her sexuality to get money!! OPRAH WHAT WERE YOU THINKING????

Since when did this become about Beyonce. That always cracks me up.

How is Beyonce an issue in this at all? Look at what’s she’s accomplished. You don’t like her fine that’s your cuppa soup but don’t blame her for what’s going on or say that she’s the reason that a lot of black women young and old have self esteem and self respect issues.

The self-respect and self-esteem starts with the first word in each of those words - self. It’s not about everyone else but about us. If you don’t like what’s going on - don’t complain but do something to make a change.

Like my father said - you don’t get to complain if you don’t vote. So go out and make your voices and votes count, do something instead of just talking about it.

And banning, censoring is not the solution to the problem. What is needed is a real solution that will work. But you have to also know, that you can’t subject your views and opinions on me. Just like I can’t do that to you. I have a right to read, listen to and watch what I want.

Only I can say what affect it will have on me. Only I can say that’s its degrading and demoralizing to me. But if I know it doesn’t apply to me then it doesn’t affect me directly. The issue comes in on the indirect affect and backlash.

Do I see it as degrading or disrespectful? - yes and no. No because I don’t listen to Snoop or 50 or The Game or Jeezy. Yes b/c I know some people can’t separate ENTERTAINMENT from REALITY and I do know that it affects some.

So does that give someone else the right to dictate what I listen to or whatever? How about instead of asking for a ban? We do something to help the youth and get more positive images shown. How about we become mentors and big brothers or big sisters and show by our actions and words that all that what you see isn’t real or a reflection of self and all that glitters and glistens isn’t gold or diamonds.

But I listen to Nelly and Ludacris and I’ll continue to b/c I like there work in the studio and outside the studio. And I can keep doing what I’ve been doing. FFwd past a song I don’t like and if it gets to the point where I’m skipping the entire CD then I’ll do what I’ve done in the past write a letter, make my voice known and stop buying them.

It starts with self and home and God. Others have said it, but I think part of the problem is that we’re talking at each other instead of to each other so we’re not listening and not hearing what is being said.

We’re so quick to judge that we don’t bother to listen or analyze or discuss and debate.

Hip Hop is a problem, we all know it is a problem. Because Black people created and grew up on Hip HIp many of us men and women try to live it for real-while non blacks don’t-they shuck n jive then go back to their responsibile sensible lives. The sooner we as a community face it, the sooner we can heal.

How many times have you had to turn the Tv because you couldn’t stand the perverse commercials and videos that come on BET after 9:00pm–pure sleeze. None of which you see on MTV during the same time slot. Come one people We are being exploited and destroyed. Russ Simmon said yest that HIp Hop has done more for race relations than any black activist in the audience. Yea, but at WHAT PRICEEE-Clown?? Exploitation, Disenigration, break down of family/men/women and community-all for good race relations. Selling, exploiting, and downgrading your own sisters so others can get a kick or excuse me “good race relations.”

Russell calls it “good race relations” just because non black ethnicities want to say the n-word/h-word/b-word and shuck and jive with us. At the end of the day they go back to their worlds because they know it’s just entertainment-it has not solved race relations. RS needs some help man he, can’t see for all the bling bling, glitter, and gold. Common was the most well spoken and intelligent on the panel…

Z thank you …. you said everything i wanted to say

And another thing–if you haven’t noticed I am SOOO upset with Russell man. Your sisters self esteems, families, and livihood are taking a beat while you give this none sense the greenlight. I remember seeing those Beautiful black sisters that Snoop Dogg had on a leash. I was SOooo hurt man. What does that say about our men and how they feel about us? Yes it’s hard for black men, but many via Hip Hop and the HIp Hop impersionators have their feet on black women’s throat.

Let’s face it when gansta rap was out, a lot of black people tried to live it, now that Hip HOp has made another turn, many of us are trying to live that too! I LOvE Hip HOp with Alll my heart, but something has got to give. I want HiP HOP to be sexy, provacative, and edgy–but I also don’t want to be called a b or a h everytime I walk down the street because hip hop and videos says it’s cool. I’m not hearing much poetry via the radio or videos these days, but it would be nice if I did Russell.

They don’t show videos anymore on BET. It’s all about the reality shows. And “black” show reruns.

320. Tiffany said:
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Oprah is always blaming the rappers why doesnt she ever blame the video vixens who agree to shake their asses in front of the camera.. no one is putting a gun to these girls heads saying ” you better be in my video and let me call u a hoe or else” they choose too.. If you dont like rap music more power to ya but dont go blaiming the hip hop industry because of something that don imus said that still doesnt make it right!

—–

THAT IS EXACTKY MY POINT. AND THE FEMALE “RAPPERS” ARE WORST…..

251. ThinkAboutIt said:
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…. if you are going to have a panel on the subject, where was the “Baddest Bitch”, the “Queen Bitch”, “Head Bitches in Charges”, “bitbull [dog] in heels” and mami with the Ill Na Na

To suggest that women rappers and coochie girl video vixens bear no responsibility in this denigration is wrong.

Karla–I sooo agree with you!

Candy? Just curious can you list 5 positive things that HIP HOP has cause in the black community. I can’t believe you don’t see the break down. It is so deep. It even influences are black college graduates and black corporate America Execs. In fact, it seems many times that the middle class is trying to live it much harder than the hood-because they have the resources to try to live it. The Hood doesn’t have the money too have women take off their clothes for money, floss and interchange in n out a bunch of women, drive fancy cars. It’s not the hood it’s HIP HOP. It’s our baby. It’s affecting us.

“Bitches ain’t sh!t but hoes and tricks”… That’s from the great poet, Snoop dogg.!!

This “discussion” went nowhere. and to be honest, it made me realize that “hip hop” and russell simmons dont have a leg to stand on. Not to mention russell’s awful annoying lisp. I have never bought a rap CD, why should I, just to hear them curse me out?! however, i do not think they should b to blame for imuses comments bout rutgers and black women, they have nothing to do with this. and for russell, commmon, and others to come out like this, just says they are admitting they are the reason he said it. lets not turn this whole thing around, and make it hip hops problem. imus did that out of spite. focus should be on him, not hip hop.

I agree that alot of the female rappers, video chicks now share equal responsibility,because they help to perpectuate all that alot of these men think abiut bkack women anyway! Cant complain abotu rappers disrespecting women when you yourselves continue to disrespect yourselves for the almighty dollar ,and attention. I think that our young women need good role models to serve as an example of what we as women can acheive with perseverance, hard work,discipline, education, and self esteem-self love! Just as we have young men trying to emulate the male rappers that they see on Bet in videos , we also have young girls attempting to emulate LIL Kim ,Foxy Brown, trina, among other ladies of hiphop! I am a woman who commands respect from others because I carry myself with respect!

It is sad that russell thinks hip hop has done more for race relations than civil rights leaders. how does he think he got to the place he was at without them?

It is both. Hip hop is from the hood and part of the hood.

5 positive things -

1. Nelly’s Bone Marrow Drives which have saved 20 lives so far.

2. Ludacris’ Luda Foundation as well as countless others in Hip Hop who provide clothes, books, school books, toys, meals.

3. Hip Hop Summits which focus on financial and fiscal responsibility that teach that getting money and having money doesn’t mean nothing if you don’t know how to keep and main money.

4. All the socially responsibile songs and positive songs that don’t get played that help young brothers and sisters, women and men to know that they’re not alone and if “so and so” can do it and survive and get out of being a drug dealer or ex-con then maybe he/she can do. All the songs that say don’t give up, keep going. - Fly away by Nelly, Runaway Love by Ludacris who has used his song in conjunction with the runaway hotline.

5. Bringing awareness of the issues that plague our community. As well as bringing awareness of issues of the world into the community.

6. Providing jobs in a variety of areas where blacks, women and minorities weren’t previously

7. the biggest one of all - allowed us an avenue and means to express ourselves.

Yes I realize that that’s more than 5. All hip hop isn’t bad.

Twintron that is what I am saying…
I love Russell because his is my brother -i don’t want to put the weight of the world or all the troubles in the Black community on his shoulder, but his thought process is something else. He is in his own World. People want to critcize Oprah for being success and out of touch. How much more out of touch could be than Russell Simmons. Don’t get me wrong I know he does a lot of good in NYC-but the influence of HIP HOP is counter acting all of his good.

I don’t know how many of you remember this, but after Snoop showed up at the awards with the women on leashes. MTV did a parody of Black women sitting on all four-barking and carrying on. People were upset and lashing out at MTV. The black community was not upset with Snoop at All.Then when snoop was questioned-don’t quote me on this part “they ain’t doing shyt so they need to be led around on leashes. Google it and Seeee. People we have to hold ourselves responsible for this mess.

275. JUDAH said:
——————————————————————————–

@ 258

Where in my post did I specify who it is that is bringing the negative bombardment? Where did I say that whites are ones saying these things? The black community carries on the negativity that was placed in it from the time that we were brought into this captivity. How come it’s a cop out when it comes to black men but for no one else? If that’s the case, I don’t want to hear anyone complain about anything because remember, this is America. We all love each other. I don’t want to hear about racism of any kind, anti-semitism, homophobia, or “nappy headed hoeism” because everyone should ignore it, stop making excuses, and rise above it.

In any environment you will have superlative individuals that will rise above any situation they’re placed in. Just like you will have “privileged” people that become degenerates. What I’m talking about is the C student. The A student will almost always succeed and the F student will almost always fail. The C student can become an A or F student depending on the teacher, classroom, and curriculum. The C student far outnumbers anyone else so those are the ones that are the subject of discussion. You or I cannot compare what we were able to do with the average person because the Most High gives everyone a different level of insight.

Amongst black people are a group that I call “closet coons”. Those are negroes that put up a real good front that they give a damn about black people. They always have some grand “educational” or “voting” reform that’s going to save black people, lol. When asked to expound on their plan they get defensive because it involves fantasy and there’s no precedent for it’s success. They will then reflexively protect caucasians (even if whites were never brought up, lol) at all costs with knee jerk, mind control responses. “We have to look at ourselves”, “we can’t play the race card”, we can’t counter ‘hate’ with ‘hate’”, “Color don’t matter”, “what did Dr. King say brother?”, “God don’t hate”, etc., etc. Those are the same type of black people that the white man puts in prominent leadership positions because he knows that they can be bought and will mislead the average person, who is sheep regardless of color. One of the key attributes of the average closet coon is that they attack you for “seeming” to attack caucasians in any way, shape, or form even when one makes a banal statement.

…………………………………………….

Well I do recall ASKING you a question, not quoting you as saying anything so I don’t understand why you are out in felt field with your response. If that’s not what you meant when just say “that’s not what I meant”. It’s that simple. No need to go on a rant about how you come up with some bullshit mathematical equation and scales of heirarchy to determine how you categorize black people in general…I could care less.

BTW…I love your definition of “closet coon”. I have one of my own. I define it as someone who tries to use intellect as a form of seperation from the masses. They think they’re on the same level as the very people they pretend to have figured out, and at any and every opportunity seize the opportunity to call their fellow man “dumb negroes” (probably among white people, lol) as if that puts them on the upper echelon of the universe. But little do they realize that while they’re up on the mountian watching the flock from above that they are indeed a sheep themselves (or worse yet, white man’s dog) and it hurts their hearts to acknowledge and own it.

Also I never said I couldn’t see the break down but does it make me wrong because I can see both sides. That I can see the positive and the negative.

Everyone is focusing on the negative and negating the positive. It’s not hip hops fault that this happened or that a racist white man said what he said. Look back at Don Imus’ history and the history of the united states as a whole. There you will see the problem.

We’ve come a long way in the past 50 years (cince the beginning of the civil rights movement) but we have along way to go.

And as a college graduate and a female, hip hop hasn’t made me hate myself or do something stupid or raunchy or made me do something I wouldn’t be normally predestinated to do.

If you are going to say that hip hop and the hip hop culture is the problem. You have to look at the whole entrie hip hop culture and community not just the parts that irritate you or that you disagree with.

There is more to hip hop culture than just music and this discussion and other’s like it is succeeding in one goal - making hip hop the scape goat instead of examining the real problem and problem areas. It’s blaming one thing without offering a realistic and valuable solution. This I am afraid will become an us versus them thing or an us vs us (something to further divide the black community).

Did anyone else notice, the fool that said “lets air out our dirty laundry?” or the other uncle tom talkin bout “white people dont do that?” like lets take a lesson from the great race!?!!? LOL! there was no need for this airing of dirty laundry, we leave that to Bill Cosby…by the way..where is Bill Cosby on all this?

Also, the persons she really needed to have up there on the panel were the white corporate execs getting paid off of this. because like Nikki said, Russell simmons and his cronies are the ones that are out of touch. shame on everyone that doesnt see that they are the ones that are selling out. wow the words “selling out” have been perverrsed to epic proportions!!!

Candy- I not saying I don’t respect your opinion. I am just saying if your going to make a statement or take a stand where is your reasoning to back up your statements. I am asking for Evidence of the positive side of HIP HOP and the good it is doing. Just 5, positive things because I can name about 50 negative things.

And no offense sister girl-bt I am a college graduate and a sorror of AKA-so I know all about college and class. But I see the breakdown through out. Please don’t say HIP HOP is not affecting the College Educated because they are headstrong. COMPLETE LIE. YOu have (not all)-but many men in Kappa Alpha Psi, Omega Psi, and Alpha Psi trying to be pimps and carry out the life style of Hip Hop artists(because guess what they made it out the hood and can do it like that), renact videos, make women indesposable to their lives, and view COLLEGE- YES even COLLLege educated women who are just trying to make a better life for themselves as hoes. Many of my sorros and fellow college grad women know I am telling the truth.

THIS SUCKS! I have to speak on it, and not just for COLlege educated women. Because I can’t even imagine what the sister in the hood working at the local grocery store with a couple of kidos n no baby father is going through. what is her defense to stop black men and society from calling her whores and bithches, she didn’t go to college. She’s still a sister trying to get by. So, I have to speak on it for sisters-even those who don’t have a voice. HIP HOP has taken a turn- and I am so sorry Imus offended /hurt those young women like that, but I am SOOOOO Glad we are finally talking about it-IT is not cool it’s causing a break down in family.

Respectable Black people, Oprah, and anyone else can talk until we are black and blue in the face, Russell and his cohorts wont stop unless we make them. can we blame these men for making money?!?! if we dont like it, do what we did to imus. let the marketplace speak. dont buy the music, attend the concerts, or wear the merchandise. thats what i have been doing all along. it will work. yes we know that 80% of white kids are buying the music, but if 10% stopped, thats enough to make a blow. not to mention, we can get white people to stop buying it if we quit acting like its cool. stop dancing in the videos, stop buying the music, stop attending concerts etc. after all, white kids just follow what we do, because if there is one power black people will always hold in this country…is that we dictate to the world whats considered COOL.

And Candy your points are so weak. You say we are pointing the finger at HIP Hop but overlooking the real problem. Just what is the real problem then?? And we are not dividing we are trying to hold each other Men and WOmen accountable.

And you say HIp HOp doesn’t make you do anything that you wouldn’t normally being doing. Well I gues you are just way more head strong than the rest of us. It’s proven fact, you can’t listen to something over, and over and over and it not affect you in any way. Music influences–duh that’s what it is meant to do. All I know is when I listen to hip I even go into “Video Girl Mode.” Like girl, where the ballers at-or what sport does he play, or what does he drive?? I get all in materialistic mode. Which is why now at the age of 26 1/2yrs I am seeing Hip Hop cleare these days.

I agree with Twin. I think we can make it happen by depicting what’s cool. I just want the black artists depicting what they see in the hood “from the hood” to be responsible as well.

Now I’m off to my hip hop dance class…there is one good thing, it is helping me get down to that 130 I need for my career goals. But it’s the fun stuff–no bitch and ho calling. FUN FUN!!

@344 twintron4 …I agree all day long………

So many of us are saying WE don’t buy this or that. We don’t support Snoop Dogg or Luda or whomever. Fine. But we sure are quiet about it.

But I would like to see us MORE VOCAL ABOUT IT. WE are quick to stop supporting black men that marry/date outside our race but we can’t say out loud that Jigga Man is trying 2 pimp us? He needs to change or loose that contract with HP. Period.

When P Diddy said in one of his Raps,,,”I’ve got Asian women that change my linen after I’ve blazed them in it” One little call 2 the media and Asian women had that shut down with a quickness AND got an apology. What about us? I guess we don’t get what we don’t ask for.

Finally,

More evidence of buffoonery…See snoop disrespect his own Lawyer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwmC-6hzLpk

honestly, i think that imus shouldn’t have been fired. what he said was wrong and unjust, however rappers say worse things than nappy headed hoes in their lyrics. the black community is only causing an uproar over this becuz it came 4rm a white man. if it was a black man, then we would have been kept it moving. we have been conditioned to condone what rappers say about black women and don’t give it a 2nd thought. i feel if ur going to get down on imus then get down on every individual who has disrespected the black community, i.e. black people

Wow, I am so happy this discussion is happening. Almost 400 posts. I am not a hip hop fan whatsoever(grew up listening to old school R&B, and still listen to it to this day). I would’ve loved to see the panel consist of Snoop, Nelly, 50, Luda, Em, Queen Latifah, Lil Kim, etc. Maybe they were invited but declined. I’m sure they don’t think there is anything wrong with their lyrics or what they do. It would’ve been nice to get their take on this debacle.

I don’t see a change happening soon. As long as people defend the negativity in some rap music and continue to purchase it, change will not take place.

We as women must take responsibility for how we portray ourselves. If you dress scantilly clad, a man is going to see you as nothing but a “H”, slut, etc. We are non-human to many of them.

Society is misogynistic all the way because women have been called hos, sluts, tramps, etc., but what about men that do the same thing? We slap them on the back and say, “way to go.”

There is no incentive for Russell or anyone else to change because it’s working for them. They’re probably thinking, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

That’s your opinion. But the question becomes instead of dogging hip hop can you agree that there is positive there.

And how are they weak if they’re true? It’s often that people who don’t have a “real, vital” argument will resort to silly, meaningless arguments like you did.

Too too funny.

Yes everyone is pointing the finger at hip hop, as I and others have pointed out. And hip hop music in particular without looking at the real big picture that this all didn’t start with hip hop and it won’t end with hip hop.

Hip hop is more than just music. The “hip hop culture” encompasses music, books, tv and movies as well as magazines and radio. So you point the finger at music but don’t want to look at the positive aspects. That’s fine and well for you. But I’m not going to turn a blind eye and use hip hop as a scape goat.

As I stated there’s good and bad in hip hop.

The arguments and points I made would only be weak if they were untrue or you could prove them wrong. But for every negative there is a positive.

I must be because I listen to hip hop and it hasn’t changed me. Just like growing up seeing the drug dealers and drug addicts in the hood made me realize that that’s not how I want to be or turn out. It became a positive for me because I saw something and it helped me do better so I wouldn’t end up like that or be one of the “ho’s or bitches” (because they do exist in and outside the black culture and applies to both men and women) that are being talked about.

I don’t go into video girl mode b/c I know that money doesn’t make the man and I’d rather take a man who’ll be there for me instead of dog me. Money ain’t everything.

I’m all for holding everyone accountable but as I said it’s not just the music that showing degrading and ghettoized images.

But it’s overlooked in books b/c they’re not as popular. How is that right?

As I’ve said, if you’re going to point the finger at one thing you have to point it at the whole thing. Which is my point - don’t just blame the music or the artist b/c they aren’t the only ones doing the things we’ve discussed here.

This won’t end or change with hip hop. It takes people individually and collectively to want to change. As well as people willing to listen to varying viewpoints that are dissimilar and divergent from our own.

Bill Said:

Can I ask you ask question ???

How many woman do YOU PERSONALLY KNOW that let guys slide credit cards down their ass ?
Seriously,
How Many Woman do YOU PERSONALLY KNOW that behave in a “Bitch or Hoe” Catagory ????

I know with me the answer would be 0.
I don’t personally know any bitchs or hoes…

Is it POSSIBLE that this is a small segment of society (Stripper, Gold Diggers Video Chicks) that the Rappers are singing about??

I mean when was the last time you went to the club, and I guy called a female a bitch or a hoe
Seriously…

To answer your question, I don’t know any personally but I see how some of these girls carry themselves. I do believe that their are some females that fit this category that these rapper rap about. Do I think it’s right know I don’t, I don’t agree at all with the way we are protrayed in the videos, movies and etc. But we have to take responiblity in our own actions. And you wanted to know the last I went to the club and heard a man refer to a female as a bitch or hoe… Just last weekend, when a female kept walking when a guy was trying to get her number. This form of disrespect is live and well.

Bill Said:

Do we really need to tell the world about our disagreements, and the dysfuntional attitudes of our Young Black Youth ?

Bill you sound like house slave.

IN CASE YOU DIDN’T GET THE MEMO:

The world ALREADY KNOWS how full of self hatred we are.

IT’S BEEN LONG RUNNING KNOWLEDGE OF EVERBODY BUT US.

Imus potentially took away marketing dollars from his employer and therefore, he was fired.

THAT’S HOW IT GOES.

When young black rappers degrade black women, they are actually MAKING MONEY for their white rich employers.

SHADY AMERICAN BUSINESS MEN HAVE JOINED FORCES WITH SHADY SELLOUT, WOMAN HATING, VIOLENCE PRONE, SEXUALLY CONFUSED, PAPER CHASERS OR rappers.

I SAY: CALL EM’ OUT.

I commend Oprah for making the show.

I’m watching it right now because I recorded it and I think we have ignoring the real problem Don Imus made that comment to get the finger pointing away from him and pointed towards something else. I dont believe for one minute you could actually believe that he said it because he ehars it from the black community..What he said was racist..b4 he made the comment about “nappy headed ho’s” he said the other team should win because there were beautiful young ladies and after that thats when he called the rutgers team “nappy headed hos” and “tattoed up” and “gorillas” what is that did he hear from Hip hop music that white women should win bc theyre beautiful nd balck women are nothing but nappy headed hos NO Hes a plain racist…even though i think he just wanted to point it at Hip Hop..
we should uderstand that Hip-Hop at the state where it is right now it CRAP its nothing but hey i got money or i got beef with another rapper or i got girls shaking their booties…it all the same its become so standardized that hey to be a big rapper i need big booties or girls dancing look at the new artist Drake his somg was nice but then look at his video and i think the hip hop world is standardized with only booty shakin women in ther videos

@ Twin Tron I agree with you, but you know Latinos and White women replaced black women in vides-Rkellys I’m a Flirt and a lot more videos but I haven’t watch videos so long the only time I catch a video is on CL.

I would love to all site around a round table with you all and discuss this issue because I respect everybody’s point of view because it so different.

#318 THE BUSH

I’m not gonna come down on you too hard but let’s get something straight. Hip Hop cant defend it’self. Women have been blocked out of the game.

Lauryn Hill-MIA
Lil Kim- lost money doing a bid for a bunch of clowns
Foxy Brown- label difficulties
Charlie Baltimore- label difficulties
Rah Digga- label difficulties
Trina